Women Believed to be members of Irish Travelers (Woman Taped Beating Child an "Irish Gypsy")

WNDU-TV, South Bend, Indiana ^ | September 20, 2002

[Shermy]

Some local authorities will not refer to Madelyn Gorman/Toogood and Margaret Daley as 'Travelers' but a local expert on Travelers says from the video he's seen, he believes the women are Irish Travelers. There are an estimated 12,000 to 20,000 Irish Travelers in the United States, mostly in South Carolina and Texas. This is where it is believed Gorman and her family is from.

Travelers live a nomadic lifestyle, moving from town to town in large groups to do seasonal work but they've also been labeled, by some, as scam artists. Most Irish Travelers in this country are descendents of 19th century Irish immigrants. They are also known as Irish gypsies or "tinkers".

Traveler expert

Elkhart resident Don Wright has been investigating the Travelers for 24 years. He's published books including one called 'Scam!'. Wright says many of these scams take place in our own backyard. Between April and October, there are between 15 to 20 families in the Michiana area running these scams. When Wright saw the Kohl's parking lot assault video, he knew this was more than just a case of child abuse.

After seeing the video, Traveler expert Don Wright says he called police and other Travelers and came to this conclusion. "I started making calls right away and found out, yes indeed, they were Irish Travelers."

Reasons behind the beating

Wright believes the beating happened for one of two reasons. "The little girl gave away the scam to an employee or the mom was so ticked off at not getting refunds she took it out on the little girl. As far as beating a kid like this, I've never heard of it."

Wright has heard of Travelers working in the Michiana area. He says certain things in the video lend him to believe these women are Travelers. "The fact that the license plate was from Texas - I knew who they were."

Why do they travel here?

Wright wrote about Travelers who travel from Fort Worth, Texas to Indiana in his 1996 book called 'Scam!' "A majority of the Travelers come to Elkhart a few times a year to pick up travel trailers they use for different scams." Wright says the trailer is a scam in and of itself. They live in it until they can sell it for an exorbitant price. Meanwhile, men of the Travelers do house scams and the women do shoplifting scams. Wright says it is common to take along their children. "This is on the job training for kids. They learn to shoplift at their mothers elbows."

Prosecutor Chris Toth said today that the reason Kohl's began to follow these two women and their daughters was because they had scammed the store before. Police in Fort Worth say in March they arrested Madelyn Gorman for an alleged theft at Kohls.

[Cacique]

interesting, Ithought gypsies were only Roma people.

[lewislynn]

She's likely to steal your heart...then your money.

[Consort]

A Gypsy Flag

[MissAmericanPie]

Look at that little face, she has already stolen my heart, she wouldn't have to steal my money, I would spoil her so rotten that salt wouldn't save her.=o)

[GodsLittleOne]

As brutal as it looks (and as absolutely adorable as the little girl is) I would more or less understand if the mother did this as discipline, because the kid didn't seem to be at all affected by it, she popped back up again as normal as can be. HOWEVER, it apparently WASN'T for disciplinary reasons, it was because the little girl told the truth about [her mother being a fraud], so I believe it was wrong. But then again, I could be wrong...

[Tennessee_Bob]

I would more or less understand if the mother did this as discipline,

Sorry. I'm the father of a nine-year old girl who was once four-years old, and I can't understand that kind of treatment (you've seen the video, right?) as discipline of any sort. I would discipline a dog the way that mother acted towards her child.

[Mike Darancette]

Travelers live a nomadic lifestyle, moving from town to town in large groups...

There are so many sub-cultures in the USA that I know so little about.

Wait till the Boomers start retiring in 10-12 years and hit the road in their trailers and motorhomes. Geretol Gypsies.

[GodsLittleOne]

You're right, she shouldn't have been hit to that degree. There were some pretty HUGE blows. Yeah, I saw the video. It's sad, she looks so innocent (the girl, not the mom)!

[let freedom sing]

The bill is in response to reports that girls as young as 12 were being forced into arranged marriages with older men in the Irish Traveler community

omygosh-- what a tragedy for the wee little things, and the state will only give them two more years of childhood? Scandalous!

[Jimmy Valentine]

This is really interesting. I thought that the day of the Irish Tinker was long over. Instead of a gypsy caravan now it's Econoline vans.

Regards,

[RWG]

The travelers can't be too smart if they got caught in nebraska.

[AnAmericanMother]

The Rom and the Travellers/Tinkers are two different groups. They even speak different languages - the Tinkers speak "Shelta", which isn't the same as Romany. I never heard that the Tinkers dealt in horses as much as the Rom did (which is how I know the Rom, and no, I would not buy a used horse from that crowd! But you see 'em around the horse sales even now.) The two groups' affinity for sticking together, mobile homes, VERY fancy cars, etc. seems to be about the same.

[A. Pole]

The Rom and the Travellers/Tinkers are two different groups.

The so called Rom ie Gypsies are divivided into number of groups. I would guess that Tinkers is just one of them, maybe more distinct because of long separation.

The Political Correctness reached Poland to some degree (much less than in America) so we have in Poland THREE names for Gypsies:
Roma - the good Gypsies - street musicians, potmakers(tinkers), victims of discrimination, etc ...
Romanians - the bad Gypsies like thiefs, con artists and beggars (Romania has the highest concentration of Gypsies)
Gypsies - incorrect name for Gypsies, permitted in case of fortune tellers.

See interesting site with info on Gypsies .

[csvset]

He's a scammer, lives in a lavish house and screws folks out of their hard earned cash.

[cajungirl]

LOL!!! Good one there.

[thathamiltonwoman]

Well, if these people are gypsies then it all makes sense. They are said to be very hard on their children. I'm afraid that Martha is gone. She's probably with relatives in another state.

[AnAmericanMother]

The Tinkers really are different. See here for more information:

Irish Travellers

Their language isn't Romany, it's mostly Irish. In Ireland, the two groups don't mix.

[Gwaihir]

I've been through their part of North Augusta, too. As I recall, they generally had very large, showy homes. Odd thing was, many didn't even live in their own house. They lived in a trailer behind their house. The men drive big expensive, new trucks. It's like everything they do is for show.

[Ditter]

Amazing story, I had no idea the Irish tinkers were in the US. I knew there were gypsies here but though they were the Romanian kind. 40 years ago on a trip to Ireland, the tinkers would surround our car to beg money, whenever we stopped near them. They were always ragged & dirty.

[Gwaihir]

Hi Jeff! Had one try to pull the paint scam on me a few years back. Kicked him off my property. For folks who haven't heard about it, this is a pretty common scam of theirs. A man will approach a homeowner and say something to the effect that he "just finnished a large job and has some left-over paint, not enough for another big job, but plenty for a nice-sized home (or barn, etc)like yours". If you agree to the 'bargain paint job' the fellow goes to work. When the job is complete, the home owner is charged based on the number of buckets used. Most folks don't sit in lawn chairs watching painters work, so its difficult for many to determine what was in fact used to paint the home. The homeowner (often elderly) is over-charged for buckets never used. Worse yet, the buckets that were used were significantly thinned out. In a few weeks the whole job looks like crap. Thats about it. If the fellow is driving a REALLY nice truck, that might be a hint. Otherwise, most bargains -aren't.