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Liberty: a unified field theory
Orange County Register ^ | Sept. 15, 2002 | Alan Bock

Posted on 09/16/2002 11:56:43 AM PDT by logician2u

Edited on 04/14/2004 10:05:31 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

Senior Editorial Writer.

The last in a weekly series of 12 essays about aspects of liberty. All 12 essays can be found on our Web site.

Nat Hentoff, whose columns the Register sometimes runs, titled his 1980 book on the history of free speech in America "The First Freedom."


(Excerpt) Read more at 2.ocregister.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: consistency; liberty; market; selfownership
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To: logician2u
Bump for Alan Bock... and to read later! He's a treat to read, most times!
21 posted on 09/16/2002 8:04:01 PM PDT by dcwusmc
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To: logician2u
bump for later
22 posted on 09/16/2002 8:06:03 PM PDT by Fzob
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To: KrisKrinkle
If you can't transfer ownership of yourself can it be said that you truly own yourself?

Not relevant. Of course you can transfer ownership of yourself. Self surrender is as much a protected right, as self ownership. The problem occurs, when one chooses to reassert ones self ownership after once surrendering it to another. This is because the restriction is not upon the slave claiming self ownership, but upon the master who chooses to enforce the slavery.

A market economy might grant the purchaser of such acquired ownership a civil award for contract violation, and could under certain circumstances go as far as laying a criminal penalty for fraud upon an individual reclaiming self ownership after once surrendering it (or selling it). But the condition of slavery can not be enforced.

I would suggest that in a libertarian society, only a fool would purchase another's self ownership, as no means would exist to collect, except by way of a continual voluntary transfer on the part of the surrenderer.

Saying one can not own, that which they cannot transfer, is like saying one cannot own their imagination, which they cannot transfer in full. Only the state can legally lay claims to such immoral and impossible ownership.

It is that kind of state that needs to pass into history.

23 posted on 09/17/2002 5:36:12 AM PDT by jackbob
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To: logician2u
Very good article. One of the best I've seen at FR. BUMP
24 posted on 09/17/2002 5:38:46 AM PDT by jackbob
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To: jackbob
The article says: The concept of self-ownership is at the heart of what many libertarians view as a foundational belief. and you post that my question about self-ownership is Not relevant???

Self surrender is as much a protected right, as self ownership.

My question wasn't about surrender. My question was about transfer of ownership.

The problem occurs, when one chooses to reassert ones self ownership after once surrendering it to another.

Yes, going back on terms of surrender generally causes problems. But I am not asking about a surrender. Reasserting ownership after it has been transferred is called theft, unless the transfer was fraudulent or otherwise defective.

Saying one can not own, that which they cannot transfer, is like saying one cannot own their imagination, which they cannot transfer in full.

That at least, is more responsive to my question. But you need to expand on it. And you need a better example.

25 posted on 09/17/2002 5:22:27 PM PDT by KrisKrinkle
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To: KrisKrinkle
My question wasn't about surrender. My question was about transfer of ownership.

I don't distinguish a difference. Transferring the ownership of ones self to another, regardless of the situation which instigates such transfer, I view as a surrender of ones self. I concede that under certain circumstances such a transfer can even be profitable to the person who no longer has the self ownership. But that in and of itself, does not make the transfer any less a surrender.

Reasserting ownership after it has been transferred is called theft, unless the transfer was fraudulent or otherwise defective.

This may be quite true. But only where such ownership is recognizable by society at large, or by the state. Surrendering your self to your husband may be legally permissable in our society, but it is not legally enforceable. Thus no legal theft has occurred. At best, only a contract violation. The political concept of self ownership as a first principle, may allow non-self ownership, but by definition cannot recognize that ownership as legal.

26 posted on 09/17/2002 11:38:10 PM PDT by jackbob
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To: jackbob
Different dish, but with a not entirely dissimilar flavor:

"We may consider each generation as a distinct nation, with a right, by the will of its majority, to bind themselves, but none to bind the succeeding generation, more than the inhabitants of another country." --Thomas Jefferson

27 posted on 09/18/2002 2:12:50 AM PDT by Roscoe
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To: jackbob
"I don't distinguish a difference."

Then we are at an impasse because I do. "Transfer of ownership" encompasses more than "surrender" and at the same "surrender" has connotations inconsistent with "transfer of ownership" as I asked about.

Your second paragraph does not make any sense to me. Let me hasten to add, since I have seen some "less than cordial" posts on this general subject, that I do not mean that as an attack. I mean it as a statement of the situation.
28 posted on 09/18/2002 6:15:02 PM PDT by KrisKrinkle
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To: KrisKrinkle; jackbob
Reasserting ownership after it has been transferred is called theft, unless the transfer was fraudulent or otherwise defective.

I see the transfer of self ownership as defective.

The master can never really own the slave's self. He can't will the slave's arm to move. He can't will the slave to love him. He can't know the slave's thoughts unless the slave shares them.

Pretend the slave sells himself to a master. If a potential master should buy another's self, he has no one to sue should this purchased self "reassert" itself. The slave could always say he had no will once he transferred same to the master.

Obviously the master has unconsciously willed the slave's body to "escape". In fact, the master has assumed perpetual responsibility for whatever future actions the zombie might take. For example, should the zombie kill the master, the master has merely committed suicide.

29 posted on 09/19/2002 12:33:05 PM PDT by secretagent
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To: secretagent
"I see the transfer of self ownership as defective."

My question from post 11 was:

"If you can't transfer ownership of yourself can it be said that you truly own yourself?"

If the transfer of self ownership is defective, can it not be said the concept of self ownership is defective?

Like the concept of dry water--internally contradictory.
30 posted on 09/19/2002 5:27:39 PM PDT by KrisKrinkle
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To: KrisKrinkle
I've always felt a bit uneasy with "self-ownership". If I say "I own myself" it suggests to me a 2-part self. One part that owns, and the other owned. Then another part to own the first part - and so on. I don't see this as an internal contradiction, rather an infinite regression.

I don't know whether my unease points to a clunkiness in English, something deeper, or my fear of impending schizophrenia...


I see the appeal of including the "right of freedom from enslavement to other humans" in "rights to property", though, and for one reason besides simplicity. The idea seems to serve the cause of liberty against those who would assert ownership over others. "You don't own me, I do!"


31 posted on 09/19/2002 7:31:31 PM PDT by secretagent
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To: secretagent
"I don't see this as an internal contradiction, rather an
infinite regression. "

I have no quarrel there. I am not stuck on "internal contradiction." I am just, as you say, "uneasy" with the concept and groping for a good (and short) description of what makes me uneasy.

As to the "right of freedom from enslavement to other humans," I'd tie it to the unalienable right to liberty.

"Rightful liberty is unobstructed action, according to our will, within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others." -- Thomas Jefferson

To those who would assert ownership over others I might say such ownership would be an unrightful limitation on rightful liberty.
32 posted on 09/19/2002 8:57:25 PM PDT by KrisKrinkle
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To: KrisKrinkle
"Rightful liberty is unobstructed action, according to our will, within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others." -- Thomas Jefferson

I see more promise of a unity of rights here - all rights to property then derive from the right to liberty. Seems much more sensible to me than trying to derive the right to liberty from the right to property.

33 posted on 09/20/2002 9:07:38 AM PDT by secretagent
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To: logician2u; Liberal Classic
"As Robert LeFevre put it, the operating ethic will be "Harm no one. After that, do as you like." The government will leave alone those who honor the ethic. People will prosper and pursue happiness. It might not be utopia, which in this world is not an option. But the vision has the capacity to inspire."

Somewhat overly vague..."vision has the capacity to inspire"---anarchy is a prelude to the police state!

34 posted on 10/16/2002 4:29:59 PM PDT by f.Christian
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