Three Minute Discrepancy in Flight 93 Tape

Philadelphia Daily News ^ | Sept. 16, 2002 | William Bunch

[Congressman Billybob]

The article does not say whether the words "Pull up" came from a person, or from the ground avoidance system which produces a mechanical voice that says that.

Congressman Billybob

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[E. Pluribus Unum]

As far as conspiracies go. . .don't know how else to describe what it would take to silence thousands of people.

That's what a conspiracy is, that is true, Boo-Boo. However, all those people you mentioned were not there, were they?

[cynicom]

I think such misuse of the English language speaks frankly of your intellect. Your reply is a reflection of your arrogance and lack of civility and good manners. I hope no one here takes what you have to say too seriously.

[Sloth]

In fact, the entire premise that flight 93 was shot down would not even exist at all unless massive amounts of people knew that flight 93 was actually trailed by armed fighter jets that had actually asked for and had actually been given permission to take it down...

An outrageous falsehood. Go look at the FR threads from 9/11 when this was breaking news -- as soon as we knew there was a plane crash in rural PA, there was lots of (perfectaly reasonable) speculation of a shoot-down.

[Sloth]

500 mph with two jet engines pushing it. You forgot about that part.

I did? Really? Hmmm... then what did I ludicrously claim was providing the "80,000 to 90,000 pounds of thrust"?

[bluecollarman]

If the ground proximity alarm was sounding. There goes your 3 minute gap theory. It would be more like 30 sec, if was shot down that low.

[Edmund Burke]

The plane was likely shot down by the military.

[jalisco555]

A couple of weeks ago I saw an interview with Jere Longman, the reporter who wrote "Among the Heroes". He carefully researched the crash and said categorically that the pattern of distribution of the plane's wreckage was totally inconsistent with the plane being shot down and totally consistent with an intact plane crashing at extremely high speed.

[ZinGirl]

interesting insight, there GR2....I've always had the 'shot down/brought it down...either way' attitude. Those people on Flt 93 were heroes, no matter what....but I appreciate your insight.

cool homepage, too, btw.....well, for an AF guy (ha ha....sorry...my brother flew an A-6 in the Gulf War....and is still in the Navy....gotta lean that way!)

[TankerKC]

After listening to the entire tape, I thought that it ended rather abruptly. The plane is in the air—somewhere near cruise altitude (on would assume), then, suddenly, another aircraft reports smoke.

[E. Pluribus Unum]

I did? Really? Hmmm... then what did I ludicrously claim was providing the "80,000 to 90,000 pounds of thrust"?

When you implied that you would expect terminal velocity for aircraft debris to be in the neighborhood of 500 mph I just assumed that you had forgotten about the jet engines providing that velocity. My mistake.

[altayann]

I might be wrong, but I suspect it wasn't the ground warning alarm. There is usually a siren associated with the mechanical voice, one which would easily discernable from the voice recording.

Interesting, thought, that whomever said 'Pull up' (if it actually happened), said it in English. That would tend to imply that an English speaker actually had control of the plane at least three minutes prior to impact.

[Gunrunner2]

Actually, you would be correct--if the aircraft was in a normal decent pattern and were referring to the "Low Altitude" warning.

The on-board computers evaluate all flight data (airspeed, altitude, dive angle, bank angle, etc.), and from this data the computer decides when to issue a "pull up" command, based upon a normal-rate recovery.

So, if you are screeming towards the ground, in a steep dive, likely over 90 degrees of bank (inverted), then the computer would likely issue the pull up command well before being anywhere near the ground.

Nonetheless, the "pull up" warning is effective and does provide cues to mishap investigators.

[mac_truck]

The fact that it was shot down...

Huh? Perhaps you could explain why the seismologists recorded a single ground impact at 10:06:05 and not multiple impacts over a time interval? Or did all those plane pieces conveniently hit the ground at precisely the same time?

[Gunrunner2]

Thanks. After 6-months on the USS LaSalle, and some time on the USS America, I appreciate what the Navy guys go through.

[Samwise]

A man with two watches never knows what time it is.

[Gunrunner2]

Did you miss the ";-)"?

Lighten up.

[chris_in_nj]

This is the second time I am responding to threads like this. I would rather not but I feel compelled.

My father died on Flight 93. I have been to Shanksville. Last week I stood on the exact spot where the plane came down. Wally Miller, the coroner, has spoken with my mother many many times about what happened. And - I heard the cockpit voice recording in Princeton a few months ago.

NEVER did I have one moment to believe that the plane was shot down. I heard the struggle in the cockpit and the cries of "pull up" in the last few seconds of the flight.

The plane was was travelling at 575 mph. When it hit the ground it was upside down. The cockpit and first class cabin were ripped off and flew into the woods. The main fuselage telescoped on itself.

Since the human body is about 3/4 water you could imagine why there were relatively few remains found. Parts of my father were found at the crash site - as well as his wallet.

There was a very small debris field just over one mile away. But since the plane was travelling at 575 mph that is not unreasonable.

And yes, there was "debris" found about 8 miles away. But have any of the conspiracy theorist let you know that it was US Mail that was in the cargo bay? Probably not.

There is no doubt in my mind that the plane WOULD HAVE BEEN shot down - and RIGHTLY so - had the passengers not rushed the cockpit.

Lack of synchronization of clocks and perhaps the humanitarian effort of editing by the FBI so us families did not have to hear anything too graphic seems to make sense to describe any discrepencies.

- Chris

[chris_in_nj]

This is the second time I am responding to threads like this. I would rather not but I feel compelled.

My father died on Flight 93. I have been to Shanksville. Last week I stood on the exact spot where the plane came down. Wally Miller, the coroner, has spoken with my mother many many times about what happened. And - I heard the cockpit voice recording in Princeton a few months ago.

NEVER did I have one moment to believe that the plane was shot down. I heard the struggle in the cockpit and the cries of "pull up" in the last few seconds of the flight.

The plane was was travelling at 575 mph. When it hit the ground it was upside down. The cockpit and first class cabin were ripped off and flew into the woods. The main fuselage telescoped on itself.

Since the human body is about 3/4 water you could imagine why there were relatively few remains found. Parts of my father were found at the crash site - as well as his wallet.

There was a very small debris field just over one mile away. But since the plane was travelling at 575 mph that is not unreasonable.

And yes, there was "debris" found about 8 miles away. But have any of the conspiracy theorist let you know that it was US Mail that was in the cargo bay? Probably not.

There is no doubt in my mind that the plane WOULD HAVE BEEN shot down - and RIGHTLY so - had the passengers not rushed the cockpit.

Lack of synchronization of clocks and perhaps the humanitarian effort of editing by the FBI so us families did not have to hear anything too graphic seems to make sense to describe any discrepencies.

- Chris

[cynicom]

I recall your posts from the past. You have not changed one iota for the better.