Israel's End-Times Gamble

World Net Daily ^ | Sept. 14, 2002 | Gary DeMar

[Seti 1]

"If you're gonna play the game, boy, ya gotta learn to play it right. You got to know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em, Know when to walk away and know when to run."

Kenny Rogers' "The Gambler" has sold millions of copies since its 1978 release and spawned five made-for-TV movies. But the song's appeal is in its no-nonsense philosophy. When there is no way to win, it's time to walk away from the game.

The game is over for Israel. Let me explain.

In Tim LaHaye's pretribulational rapture novel, "The Remnant," the Jews are in for a hellacious future. Two-thirds of the Jews living in Israel will be slaughtered. LaHaye is not alone in holding this noxious position. John Hagee, a popular prophecy writer, states in a recent WorldNetDaily column:

Jerusalem today is a detonating device with no fail-safe system. It's a loaded pistol at an international poker dispute with all players demanding control. It's a driverless coach careening toward a blind curve – the collision of which will birth World War III. You see, there's nothing anyone can do about WWIII. According to Hagee, it's a prophetic inevitability. It's this fatalistic futuristic perspective that has kept the heads of Jews on the chopping block for 2,000 years since there's still one more holocaust that Jews will have to go through.

Even so, evangelicals are spending millions of dollars to help Jews return to Israel. In so doing, says the Rev. James M. Hutchens, president of Israel/USA, "we believe we are fulfilling a divine calling ... to assist the Jewish people in their physical return and restoration of the land of Israel." Like Hagee and LaHaye, Hutchens maintains that "There will be no peace until the Messiah comes."

The views of these men are alarming to some Jewish leaders, as they should be. Rabbi David Saperstein, director of the Religious Action Center of Reform Judaism, asks, "To what extent will a theological view that calls for Armageddon in the Middle East lead [evangelicals] to support policies that may move in that direction, rather than toward stability and peaceful coexistence?"

The most probable scenario is that prophetic futurists will sit back and do nothing as they see Israel go up in smoke. What can they do? The Bible predicts it. "There will be no peace until the Messiah comes."

Given this inevitable scenario, what should Jews do? Leave Israel. Under the New Covenant, your land is meaningless. It has no more theological importance than Rhode Island. Under LaHaye, Hagee, and Hutchen's prophetic model, odds are you'll be dead if you stay. If not you, then certainly someone in your family will die. But if you leave, the Muslims won't have a common enemy to unify them. Let them destroy one another. Remember, Iran's war with Iraq and Iraq's invasion of Kuwait? There is no unity among these Muslim nations with Israel gone.

Then what? Come to America! Maybe we can convince Congress and the President to carve out a parcel of land in one of our National Monuments for you to settle. America is the safest place on earth for you. Once the Muslims kill themselves off, if you still think your barren strip of land is important, then you can go back.

Take a lesson from Kenny. If you're gonna play the game, ya gotta learn to play it right. You got to know when to hold on to the land and when to run. It's time to run.

[OldSmaj]

Tim Lahaye is also a theologian, if you weren't aware.

Nope, wasn't aware of that.

Nor do I care.

[MeekOneGOP]

Then what? Come to America! Maybe we can convince Congress and the President to carve out a parcel of land in one of our National Monuments for you to settle. America is the safest place on earth for you. Once the Muslims kill themselves off, if you still think your barren strip of land is important, then you can go back.

Take a lesson from Kenny. If you're gonna play the game, ya gotta learn to play it right. You got to know when to hold on to the land and when to run. It's time to run.

Right idea. Wrong folks......

Let's Roll !!

[MSCASEY]

Hello! Do you read the bible? Do you believe in Jesus? Do you believe He is going to return? I am sorry that you believe that people who believe that Jesus is their Lord and Savior and will return as the bible says are losers. I hope that one day you will see the truth. According to bible prophecy the times are mentioned with regards to the middle east and even mention of Sharon straights in Israel. If you know anything you will know that Syria will play apart But I guess you think that Isaiah, Ezekiel and Daniel and John were probably losers too. You keep good company with the UN they believe the same thing you do.
MCD

[MSCASEY]

You are one of very few. Most believe it is the Catholic Church.
MCD

[MSCASEY]

Buy the way Tom if you do read the bible what are you disputing about what I said in my post? Are you denying the fact that many in the end times will lose there heads? You should try to read the bible. You may have the spirit of fear, that may be why you are in denial of the bible says.But for the things that are to come, I believe in the time they come the Holy Spirit will bring comfort and take away the spirit of fear.
MCD

[TomSmedley]

if you do read the bible what are you disputing about what I said in my post?

I'm working my way through the NT in Italian, now, in an effort to acquire that language. I've read it through in the original NT koine greek a dozen times or so. I keep bumping into I Cor. 15:25, which paraphrases the most frequently quoted verse in the OT, Psalm 110, and speaks of a King who is reigning now, and will continue to reign while his enemies are subdued one by one. IOW, along with a number of solid Biblical Christians, I view Revelations as 90% fulfilled prophecy, along with our Lord's Olivet discourse. Still edifying to read, of course, as is Isaiah, Jeremiah, and the other prophets of fulfilled prophecies. Somewhere down the road, I anticipate a final 2nd coming, and a general resurrection, final judgement, and eternal life.

Meanwhile, I note that failed subcultures get obsessed with fortune telling. It happened to the hasidic Jews a few hundred years ago. It happened to the Puritans who bungled away a Christian commonwealth in the 1600s. And this corrupting and debilitating method of isogesis sank its poisoned fangs into American Christianity in the aftermath of the war between the states.

At the moment, dispensationalists are losing 80% of their kids to secular humanism. Reformed families are seeing 90% of their kids go on in the faith. IOW, you're betting on a losing horse (or is it 4 horsemen?). Reformed (Calvinist) families are distinguished by such traits as systematic catechetizing, commitment to CHristian education -- and optimistic eschatologies.

10 years ago, I had the opportunity to piss on the grave of communism. I am eager to see what other victories the Lord of Hosts will secure during the 2nd half of my adult life, the years 51 through 80.

Other than puerile escapism, that's been uniformly wrong in every predictioin it's made so far, what does your eschatology encourage you to expect?

[Inyokern]

My bridge partner is a Reform Jew, and considerably to the right of moi, and way, way more religious. I dissent.

If the person is religious and to the right and he belongs to a Reform synagogue, this is unusual. Reform Judaism is basically just the Democratic Party with holidays.

Have you ever asked him why he is Reform? Is he in a mixed marriage perhaps?

[sola gracia]

Tim Lahaye is also a theologian, if you weren't aware.

LaHaye a theologian??? Then that makes his misapplication of Scripture all the more heinous!

[Torie]

Yes it is. His wife converted to the religion in which he was raised. He goes to Temple every week, and is serious about his religion. He is also serious about politics. I really don't see a contradiction at all. He is basically a Neocon, but a more religious and right wing one that I.

[sola gracia]

10 years ago, I had the opportunity to piss on the grave of communism. I am eager to see what other victories the Lord of Hosts will secure during the 2nd half of my adult life, the years 51 through 80.
Other than puerile escapism, that's been uniformly wrong in every predictioin it's made so far, what does your eschatology encourage you to expect?

Amen brother, Amen!! I long to piss on the grave of dispensationalism.

Even so, come Lord Jesus.

[cmsgop]

OMG Are you serious!!!

I assume you were at the Puallup.(sp)

They said the Jews did it, Jeez!!!

[Inyokern]

His wife converted to the religion in which he was raised

This is sheer speculation on my part but the guy probably grew up as a Reform Jew, married a gentile woman and she was converted by a Reform rabbi. This means her conversion is not recognized by Orthodox and Conservative Judaism. That is why he is stuck in Reform. I have seen this before.

[2sheep]

>You are one of very few. Most believe it is the Catholic Church.

Few there be that find it!  :)

There are whole BOOKS* and WEBSITES on the sujbect of America as Mystery Babylon.  We have written on this subject multiple times in the last three years ON FreeRepublic.  There have been many red flags and warnings.  See 46 and 10

SOL - 8/23/01 - 3 wks before 9/11

 See 127 ~ Idiot Flies Paraglider Into Statue of Liberty! [Free Republic]
 See 74 ~  Is America Becoming A Superpower Sodom? [Free Republic]
 See 16  ~ Arafat's terrorists have created their own Hell .... [Free Republic]
 The U.S. -- A Modern Babylon? [Free Republic]
 Who are the Beasts of Daniel and Revelation? [Free Republic]
 * Book:  American the Babylon
 Who is this woman?
 The Statue of Liberty and the Goddess of Personal Freedom
 Is the Statue of Liberty Pagan?
 Statue of Liberty
 Why Mystery Babylon Can't Be the Catholic Church
 Who or what is Babylon?
 Mason's Statue of Liberty
 Who is Babylon?
 Goddess of Liberty

Stewart C. Best's website www.truinsight.com is temporarily down or closed.  Try googling his six articles called "Is America Babylon?"  His links to those articles are on our FR homepage along with what we consider to be a few of the important prophecies about America.  Also do  Google Advanced Search for this string: America "Mystery Babylon"

Rev 17:3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
 4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
 5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

"The original plans for the Statue of Liberty called for her to be decked not in greenish copper but in scarlet and purple robes, jewels like a queen, and hold a "cup."  That proved too expensive and the cup which had been made was replaced by a torch, an important figure in the occult, and cup offered for sale to Russia."   16

Rev 18:7 How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.

The torch she is holding looks like a cup because it is called a torch cup, not to mention abominations and filthiness of her fornication would be terms for a cup of iniquity.   You can see a torch cup rhinestone pin and more examples at google search for "torch cup."

 48 Posted on 10/11/2001 19:33:41 PDT by Prodigal Daughter

That's probably enough to get anyone interested in the topic started.

[Phil V.]

It has no more theological importance than Rhode Island.

Come to America! Maybe we can convince Congress and the President to carve out a parcel of land in one of our National Monuments for you to settle.

---

Allow me to suggest the state of Nevada?

[MSCASEY]

Well I am impressed about your reading of the scriptures. But I have no idea where you got the interpretation that you have. I will look up Psalm 110 tomorrow.

I believe anyone who puts their children in public school is at risk of having them falling away. The NEA is hard at work.

Do you really believe that communism is really dead? If so, then why are all the goals that have been set forth by them still gaining momentum?

Let me ask you about this passage from Daniel 7
17 'The four great beasts are four kingdoms that will rise from the earth. 18 But the saints of the Most High will receive the kingdom and will possess it forever-yes, for ever and ever.' 19 "Then I wanted to know the true meaning of the fourth beast, which was different from all the others and most terrifying, with its iron teeth and bronze claws-the beast that crushed and devoured its victims and trampled underfoot whatever was left. 20 I also wanted to know about the ten horns on its head and about the other horn that came up, before which three of them fell-the horn that looked more imposing than the others and that had eyes and a mouth that spoke boastfully. 21 As I watched, this horn was waging war against the saints and defeating them, 22 until the Ancient of Days came and pronounced judgment in favor of the saints of the Most High, and the time came when they possessed the kingdom. 23 "He gave me this explanation: 'The fourth beast is a fourth kingdom that will appear on earth. It will be different from all the other kingdoms and will devour the whole earth, trampling it down and crushing it. 24 The ten horns are ten kings who will come from this kingdom. After them another king will arise, different from the earlier ones; he will subdue three kings. 25 He will speak against the Most High and oppress his saints and try to change the set times and the laws. The saints will be handed over to him for a time, times and half a time. [1] 26 " 'But the court will sit, and his power will be taken away and completely destroyed forever. 27 Then the sovereignty, power and greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven will be handed over to the saints, the people of the Most High. His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom, and all rulers will worship and obey him.' 28 "This is the end of the matter.

Please tell me how you envision this being fulfilled.
MCD

[MSCASEY]

Thanks for the links! I have found that very few people that I talk to believe this. I have heard many preach also that it is the Catholic Church. Do you find this to be true with the majority of people you speak with outside of this forum?
MCD

[ET(end tyranny)]

Hi Yahuda!,

Yeah, only America. Israel is America's proxy in the global war against Islam Anyone who advocates caving to Islam is a traitor; NO MATTER WHAT THEIR THEOLOGY.

You are absolutely correct. They aren't going to be happy until they have it ALL. Once they get rid of the kafir, they will then turn on their own and wipe out those they think are not 'pious' enough. They don't dare let their brethren know this since they are busy recruiting them so that their numbers will be larger. But afterward they will become dispensible. imo

[ET(end tyranny)]

To: 2sheep

Yes, but we are the nation that buys from all the others. It is our nation that props up the economy of so many others. We are the nation that the merchants would cry about if we fell. I don't see the merchants crying about the Catholic Church falling nor the queen. And in many ways we are also spiritually bankrupt also.
MCD

Right. We buy FROM the OTHERS:

11 And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:

Since we buy, the above can't be talking about the US.

12 The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble,

13 And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.

I'm guessing that you used the KJB. Other versions say OLIVE oil. At any rate the US doesn't have Ivory, or grow cinnamon, spices, frankincense, myrrh or olives.

Those verses obviously do not apply to the fall of America, but some place that does or did have all those things. jmo

[2sheep]

Yeshua said most people would be deceived and that broad is the way that leadeth to destruction.  Most people everywhere seem to be atheistic secular humanists, even if they say they are Christians.  They think that truth is what they *think* even denying facts before their eyes and the Word of God.

Don't worry what the "majority" think.  They are on the broad road.  We are more concerned with what is Truth and it is only in continuing in the Word/Torah that one gets to know Truth.  The globalists have been working for generations through every element of society to delude people into believing that *group think* and majority opinion is truth.  We know they are wrong.

[#3Fan]

Oh boy. Genesis tells exactly who Israel consists of in the latter days. It's not just Jewish people! Jacob's trouble is America's, Britain's, Canada's, Israel's, Australia's, and western Europe's trouble! Hagee better worry about his own butt along with Israel's.