AUTOPSY AND INVESTIGATIVE REPORTS ON THE DEATH OF CHIEF NEGOTIATOR

08/23/02 | Harris County Medical Examiner's Office, Houston Fire Department Fire/Arson Investigations

[HoustonCurmudgeon]

as an Army guy, he probably thinks dale means dale evans

Shows what two damn Marines know ... Dale is my first name!

[ladyinred]

Hi, this is off subject sort of, but since Dale Evans was mentioned, just wanted to say I saw the Roy Rogers and Dale Evans museum on my way up here to Big Bear where I am right now! It was a real thrill to me! I amuse easily! :) Greetings from Big Bear!

[LadyX]

" Dale is my first name!"

Laughing, and enquiring minds wanna know:

Do ya kiss yer HORSE, Dale, since ya don't kiss Roy?!!
LOLOL

(No - not THAT Roy!!)

[LadyX]

Bet CHIEF is laughing - he loved to joke.

Once on Freeper Island in 1998, he mowed the grass skirts Billie and I wore for the Friday hula lessons down to 4" !!

[ladyinred]

Dale is your first name? A few years ago, I was working in a nursery, and a big he man type walked in to deposit his child with me. I asked for his name for our records, and he said in his deep voice, "My name is Dale Evans, and don't laugh!" Well, for those who know me, you know that was an impossibility!

[COB1]

"It was a real thrill to me! I amuse easily! :)"

Yes, I noticed.
Anyone who keeps their husband tied to the doghouse out back so they can watch him beg for a dog biscuit amuses easily.

Kiss a tree for me, chadsey, or pee on it, whichever.

[Shooter 2.5]

"They spend all their time rolling those darn caissons along (and one of these days I'm going to figure out what in the heck those things are!)."

The short version: It's an ammo wagon. During the Civil War, the artillery piece was pulled by a two wheeled cart with an ammo box on top. The cart was called a Limber. The ammo box was called the limber box and the caisson was a flat bedded wagon that had extra limber boxes on it. The facts of the caisson were told to me. The rest I know because I was in a CW re-enactment artillery unit for ten years.

[COB1]

Thanks, shooter!
I always wondered why in the heck they were rolling tires, but then that's Army, and they're kind of strange ducks anyway.

[theirjustdue]

"I suppose discovering the hand prints under the overlying soot would require dusting the covering soot off to make them visible."

If any were laid down and have not been disturbed, they may be visible by standing away from the wall and giving it a very careful visual scan. The process of groping along the walls, wipes the soot away, down to the original wall covering. Any later build up of soot is deposited over it, but, much like snow filling over tire tracks, the tracks are never totally filled in and a pattern is sometimes still clearly visible.

Finding such marks is not uncommon in such cases where a victim becomes trapped and disoriented. Sometimes they are very apparent and you can literally follow every move a person made. There is also a chance Herb was not very mobile at all and that he didn't leave anything behind.

With what little there is to go on, it certainly seems worth a look, though, even if it could provide only a very small piece of the puzzle.

[amom]

Thanks so much for your input. Helps a lot.

[Humidston]

Good information, as usual, TJD.
And this is precisely the reason we wanted to enlist the help of good people such as you.

Thanks for being here!

[razorback-bert]

(and one of these days I'm going to figure out what in the heck those things are!).

All you'll had to do was ask anyone smart enought to be in the Army.

[COB1]

I have just talked with the Houston Arson Bureau Investigations.

This case is still pending, meaning it's still being investigated.

I have mixed feelings about that.
On the one hand we know that they're not closing the book on it or "cold casing" it.
On the other hand, we can't get the information we would love to have.

The group we have put together will continue to pursue the avenues we are allowed, and we will report any new findings.

[austingirl]

I am glad they are still investigating - I wish I had more faith that they aren't trying to sweep this horrific crime under the rug.

Thanks for all you do for the Chief's memory.

[carenot]

Thanks for the flag Cob, I wish I could help.

Let me know who to call, write or e-mail.

[COB1]

Thanks, care.
I think from this point I need to try to reestablish my contacts with the arson bureau.
I'll call tomorrow and see if I can set up a meeting with them.
I need to know in what direction this thing is going.
Thanks again; I'll keep you and everyone posted.

[theirjustdue]

Cob, I thought I was one your ping list, but didn't get a ping on this latest news. Could you please add me to your existing ping list? TIA

"This case is still pending, meaning it's still being investigated. I have mixed feelings about that."

I understand your mixed feelings, COB. You are correct, in that they will not be quite as free with any information they may be holding, but, IMO, it will open more doors than it closes.

It will be much easier bringing new leads and information to them - that may be developed as a result of efforts here on FR - and they will likely be much more receptive to cooperating with you and the group you've assembled.

Trying to convince them to reopen a case, once it's been closed - which is very difficult under the best of circumstances - and given their reported workload, would have likely been an uphill struggle, all the way, IMO.

[COB1]

I apologize, TJD.
I would have bet money you were on that ping list, but you weren't.

You have a good point about them cooperating with us now.
I really want to help them solve this instead of taking the drastic measures we have talked about with the AG and the freeps.
This IS their job!
I just want to make sure they do it!

[amom]

Thanks for the update. I really appreciate it.

[WFTR]

On the other hand, we can't get the information we would love to have.

I'm willing to wait to see justice served.

WFTR
Bill