Posted on 08/25/2002 5:31:16 PM PDT by COB1
About three months ago, under the advice of the Texas Attorney General's office, I wrote a registered letter to Joyce M. Carter of the Medical Examiner's Office of Harris County in Houston, Texas, requesting the coroner's report on Herbert Paul Meadows, known to us as CHIEF Negotiator, who died in a fire at his house on October 4, 2001.
That report along with the Houston Fire Department's report on the investigation of that fire has finally arrived.
Without going into the technical aspects of the autopsy report, CHIEF Negotiator's death was ruled as accidental due to smoke inhalation.
NOW FOR THE REST OF THE STORY:
From the Arson Bureau's report:
"The fire originated at floor level approximately 4 feet west of the east wall adjacent to the south wall in the formal dining area. At this point the sheetrock on the south wall shows calcination along the south wall approximately 6 feet in length in the area below the southeast window. This suggests an area of intense burning and high heat.
The wood wall base trim at the area of origin was deeply charred by the fire. A wooden dining set of 4 wooden chairs and a wooden table were almost completely consumed by the fire. Small charred pieces of the table and chairs were all that remained.
The fire was very intense in the dining room area and spread to the adjacent rooms to the east, west and north. These rooms sustained high heat and fire damage from the fire spread. The fire consumed wooden doors separating the dining room from the kitchen and family room. Burn patterns were consistent with a fire moving from the dining room area into the adjacent rooms."
These next pics I took through the window shown by the arrow:
Continuing with the Arson Bureau's report:
"Investigators observed that the north side garage entry door was kicked open and that a partial shoe print was found on the door. This investigator was unable to determine if the door was forced by firefighters or was forced prior to the fire."[italics and bold mine]
------------------------- From the Arson Bureau's report:
-------------------------
"Captain ------ of L-36 told Investigator ------ that he found the deceased Herbert Paul Meadows lying in a fetal position, with his head against the west wall in the bathroom near the den. Firefighters dragged the victim to the driveway where he was pronounced dead by paramedics of Squad 40."
--------------------------
"Engineer ------- of L-36 reported that he observed two tripped electrical breakers when he shut off the electrical power."
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Investigator ------- went to St. Lukes Emergency Room to interview --------(Mrs.) Meadows who is the wife of the deceased. --------(Mrs.) Meadows was transported by H.F.D. ambulance after the fire. -------(Mrs.) Meadows was treated for smoke inhalation and had been medicated by the hospital but she was able to relate details of the fire.
(Mrs.) Meadows told investigators that she and her husband Herbert watched a late night T.V. show and then she had went to bed while her husband Herbert had went into the den to work on the computer.
Mrs. Meadows stated that she was in bed about 10 minutes as was not asleep when she heard a 'noise or crash'. Mrs. Meadows said the sound 'was like something going through a window'. These sounds came from the other side of the house where her husband was working. This sound was followed by loud screams. (sic)'Was like something going through a window!' She described the sounds made by her husband as 'like I never heard him scream in my life!'
-----(Mrs.) Meadows reported she ran down the hall toward the dining area and was stopped by the thick black smoke in the kitchen area. ----- (Mrs. Meadows) yelled at her husband and asked him if (sic) see needed to call '911'! (Mrs. Meadows) stated that she heard a 'muffled' 'yes!' and then lost contact with Herbert Meadows. (Mrs. Meadows) told investigator that she smelled a 'bar-b-que' type odor like 'when you light a fire with charcoal lighter fluid'. (Mrs. Meadows) attempted to call for help on a phone in the house but she reported the phone was dead. (sic) Meadows went outside in the front yard and yelled for help.
------------------
From notes of the Harris County Medical Examiner's Office:
"Arson inv. reveals no..(crossed out).. flammable fluids"
"The investigators.. (crossed out).. smelled gas at scene"
"Not sure if they are ruling arson or not"
You now have an answer, in your's. LOL
No, the fighting is most certainly NOT productive ; tell those who started it all ... NOT the person responsible for actually working with the police to get Herb's murder solved !
yes, it rather did sound like baiting. Thanks for your appology. :-)
I don't have fingerprints or DNA, if that is what you mean.
All I have is what Mrs. Chief and her sister posted at FR. I thought revueing their statements and statements from their friends would help.
I certainly did not know doing so violated FR posting rules.
Calling COB1 names, insulting him,baiting,
I don't beleive I have insulted, or baited anyone, ever. Plus I respect Cob and like him. It wouldn't occure to me to insult him.
If you have no hard facts, read this and other related threads, but keep still.
I have read ALL related threads. And have saved them all.First to wordpad and then to webpage after someone on PalTalk told me how. I have been reviewing ALL of them, over and over, since before all of them were pulled. I saved the newspaper articles, too.
I thought it would be helpful to post some of the statements. I certainly never expected anyone to be mad at me for doing so.
I have NEVER before had any of my posts deleted. It is emarrassing.
Cob, as I told you in my Freepmail, a few days ago, I would be happy to help you, if and whereever I can.
"Are the injuries/burns consistent with injuries found on someone who has died in a fire of this magnitude?"
I haven't seen a ME report. Is there one available (and I've somehow missed it)? I have read many such reports, over the years, and if complete, it should detail everything, down to the brand and color of underwear Chief had on. It should detail the exact location and depth of any char or burns and most certainly the amount of soot found in his lungs and CO that accumulated in his bloodstream.
Did you see the ME report that Cob posted a link to? It seems far from complete, but it is what they sent.
We are still awaiting word on the status of this case, and, again, the holidays are going to delay that report.
Thanks carenot. I had run a quick check and had completely missed it. Yes I agree with you that it does seem a bit limited, especially for a report prepared at a time when it was considered by HFD, as a likely arson/homicide.
It's a testimony to Chief that he had friends, especially like you, who have never rested in their efforts to uncover the truth. Chief may be gone, but he certainly has not been forgotten.
I am surprised at the brevity of the report, in general. Particularly, in a case that HFD considered a likely arson/homicide, at the time. Describing the amount of soot present, as simply "abundant", for example, does little to quantify what the examiner actually saw. I am assuming he took photos though, for their files. It is apparent, to me, however, based on the percentage of CO present, that smoke inhalation, was likely the "ultimate" cause of Herbs death.
For the most part, I don't think the autopsy report, is going to tell us much more than we already knew. I certainly don't think it will help much, in determining how Herb got into that situation, in the first place.
Just reading the autopsy report, I would have to say it does appear to be consistent with being trapped in the hostile environment of a house fire. But, as we know, that is only a small part of this story.
The abrupt dropping of the preliminary reports of an accelerant, is particularly troubling and the apparent classifying of Herbs death as accidental, without determining the cause, is downright disturbing to me.
One thing I would suggest you look for, if you ever get a peek into the bathroom area, where Herb was found, is any sign that he could have been feeling his way around the walls, trying to find his way out.
My guess is, the bathroom was likely smoked up pretty bad, but may not have received that much actual structural damage. A person with smoke inhalation quickly becomes disoriented and confused. I have experienced the effects of it myself and I can tell you, you don't think clearly at all. Herb likely had no idea where he was, or where the door to safety was. If a layer of soot was initially deposited on the walls and Herb later tried to escape, there may be hand finger marks, where he ran his hands along the sooted walls, or near the floor and baseboards. This (if it exists) would be under an outer layer of soot, that would have, later, been deposited over it. A careful examination may still reveal such patterns though. At any rate, it's worth looking for and may give an indication of Herbs travels during his last few minutes. It's difficult, but at this point, with so little in hard evidence, it seems recreating the scenario, piece by piece, like this, is what it may take.
It sounds like you've assembled a great group to conduct this investigation, Cob. Distance prevents me from taking a more direct roll in helping you, but please let me know if I can help out in any other way.
Semper Fi, brother!
I was hoping to know before the end of the day whether or not this investigation is closed to determine if going into the house was possible, but the holidays have eliminated that possibility.
An item which came up in our group meeting today was the possibility that a video might have been taken immediately after the fire.
Is this normally the case, or do pictures usually suffice?
I suppose discovering the hand prints under the overlying soot would require dusting the covering soot off to make them visible.
I would love to get into the house and at least take some pictures, but it's going to have to wait awhile.
Thanks, brother, for the info.
It's succinct and knowledgeable as usual.
Semper Fi
These words are enough to make good men sick and are used only by the newer, smaller services and certain night watchmen for the navy! ;-)
Covering the Marines as always ...GO ARMY!
There is nothing wrong with the Marines ...... that 20 points of IQ, soap, and a brillo pad can't solve!
What in the heck do you want us to say:
"AN ARMY OF ONE !!"
Hell, that don't EVEN make sense!
Or I guess we could sing to each other:
"Over hill, over dale, we have hit the dusty trail,...etc."
(psst...as an Army guy, he probably thinks dale means dale evans, cobby!)
Betcha they think it is 'case' of beer 'on' the wagon rolling along in case of dire need!
LOL
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