More we know about Kmart raid, the worse it gets

Houston Chronicle ^ | August 25, 2002 | Editorial Board

[Dog Gone]

A contingent of op-ed and letter writers to the Chronicle has taken the position that arresting 278 young people during a raid on a shopping center and restaurant parking lot last weekend was entirely justified because of the annoying late-night loitering and drag racing that had become typical at that spot. But the problem with the raid is not that police officers tried to arrest lawbreakers in and around the 24- hour Kmart Super Center parking in the 8400 block of Westheimer. It is with the contemptuous attitude police showed toward the citizenry by not bothering to sort out the good from the bad.

The people who so enthusiastically applaud law enforcement for shoddy police work more than likely would be singing a different tune if they or one of their children had been unjustly swept up in the botched raid and they found themselves spending all of a weekend day working through the city's criminal justice bureaucracy and coughing up large sums to retrieve their car from the pound.

More nettlesome than the irritation of being arrested for no cause, possible long-term consequences of a needlessly acquired criminal record and the potential for significant lawsuits that will have to be defended and settled with public funds, is the fact that the officer who led the Kmart debacle, Houston police Capt. Mark Aguirre, apparently has operated unchecked for years in this free-style arrest mode.

Police Chief C.O. Bradford says he has ordered an inquiry into the parking lot arrests. And Mayor Lee Brown has referred the matter to his Office of Inspector General. But Brown otherwise has been strangely quiet for a mayor who so heavily touted his extensive law enforcement experience during his three election campaigns.

The Chronicle does not condone behavior that is unlawful, or even just annoying, including drag racing, underage drinking, drug use, disturbingly loud music playing or anything else a bunch of kids hanging out late at night in a parking lot might be up to. But neither does the paper support police- state tactics that show an alarming disregard for the right of law-abiding citizens to to go about free from fear of sudden arrest.

[Dec31,1999]

Not all cops are bad. But when the good cops either tollerate or cover up this kind of treatment of the public, they dishonor their badge just the same as the bad cops do.

Agreed. However, not all "kids" are bad either, but when they tolerate or cover up bad behavior in public, they dishonor themselves as well.

[Dec31,1999]

That's the kind of stuff we think is more typical in totalitarian third world countries.

I didn't know they had all night street parties of hundreds of people in the totalitarian third world countries.

[Dog Gone]

The last one was at Tianamen Square.

[Dec31,1999]

BTW, neither place of business complained to the police, so the police had no right to go onto private property to arrest people.

Of course they said they didn't complain. If you complained about the loud partying crowd would you admit it? (I don't believe they didn't complain.)

[Dec31,1999]

BTW, neither place of business complained to the police, so the police had no right to go onto private property to arrest people.

Of course they said they didn't complain. If you complained about the loud partying crowd would you admit it? (I don't believe they didn't complain.)

[SerpentDove]

>>Was there a history of these kids hanging out and K-mart and/or the police asking them to leave?<<

Have you been following this story at all? They weren't all kids. These were innocent citizens being rounded up and thrown in jail.

Do you see the distinction?

[Double Tap]

That is strange, my blood pressure usually rises as soon as I leave the state. More so if I'm going east.

[SerpentDove]

>> Give me a break. Maybe if teenagers/young adults faced some consequences for behavior that is unlawful, or even just annoying, including drag racing, underage drinking, drug use, disturbingly loud music playing they might think twice before doing it.<<

However, no one was arrested for this.

[Double Tap]

Do I think a gathering of two hundred plus "kids" late at night in the parking lot of a K-Mart need to be kicked off the property?

Wrong again, there were only 42 kids, all cited for violation of curfew.

[norton]

This is also an adder to steve b et al...

Yes it would, it did, but probably not in the numbers reported here.

In the intervening time I've seen too many cases of "my boy woulddn't do that" (charges dropped), "the police are racist" (counter suit, cops lose), "religion of peace" (still undecided), and videos of an arrest being made AFTER the actions that brought it about (L.A. Times goes balistic)....

I avoid the law but I also realize that Joe Cop didn't make it that way.

Does "law enforcement" apply to all?
It had better or we are totally out of control: just because it is your ox being gored ....

Do the police over react sometimes?
Of course, don't you?

[aruanan]

If there are laws against loitering and drag racing and 200 plus people were in a parking lot doing exactly that and got arrested...what's the beef?

If it's okay with the business establishment (Sonic) for the people to be there (and it was), then the people weren't "loitering". Obviously, they weren't "drag racing" in the parking lot. If there are laws against drag racing, then people should be busted in the act of drag racing not by being with a group of people alleged to be disposed to "drag racing". If you can't tell the difference between targeting unlawful behavior and targeting groups said to be disposed to unlawful behavior, then you've lost touch with what the rule of law means.

[sweetliberty]

"Do the police over react sometimes? Of course, don't you? "

Of course, but if I do it at work I won't have a job.

[Dec31,1999]

The problem is people see all forms of selfish behavior as a protected right.

Good Point.

[185JHP]

I like your post. Did you notice that some of the posters seem to have the attitude that the police work for businesses, and should only show up at the behest of the business? Neighbors/customers have no rights not to be offended/intimidated by feral, maybe drink/drug-addled "youts"? That said, mass arrests of even restaurant customers was stupid - shoulda arrested the pierced/tattooed badly behaving youts, if any could be found. If not, go have a doughnut...

[Dec31,1999]

This went on for about 20 minutes, the more I abused him, the more tickets he wrote. I didn't give a damn. My car was parked around the corner...

Thanks for the laugh!

[norton]

"What would you have them do? Hire Security Guards to check each patron as they come on the property to be sure they were in fact coming to engage in business with the establishment?"

In most parts of L.A. you are damned glad to see even a rent a cop doing just that.

[Newbomb Turk]

Hey Mary. If I go to a K-Mart after 12:00PM and shop but don't find what I want and leave empty handed am I a criminal ? Oh also Is eating at Sonic late at night a crime ?

HEY Newbomb where's your Elcamino

[Doctor Stochastic]

Where did you get the other 158 kids from?

[Dec31,1999]

The last one was at Tianamen Square.

Of course. These young people were demonstrating to abolish the tyrranical government and lack of freedoms they suffer under. After all, they can't speak out against the government, can't move to the city of their choice and can't vote.

It was really a political rally, disguised as a street party.

Of course, they had to blast music and drink cases of beer to make it look realistic.

[Doctor Stochastic]

Do the police over react sometimes?
Of course, don't you?

I don't carry guns, nightsticks, nor handcuffs. If I overreact, I cannot arrest people whose crime is eating at Sonic. If I overract, I cannot put an arrest on someone's record. If I overract, I cannot haul off cars of people who are eating at Sonic. If I overract, I can't just arrest everyone and let God sort them out.

Be careful of the standards you hold police to. They may come down to that level.