DARN it! Wish you did have his email. And also, by rolling your own, you can produce a beautiful CARTON for under $8 dollars! It's the best! And by not paying into the state coffers anymore, makes it all that much sweeter.
Posted on 08/23/2002 5:39:18 PM PDT by SheLion
NEW YORK, Aug. 22 (UPI) -- If you were to be strapped down on a surgical table while four guys exhaled smoke directly into your mouth and nostrils for 30 years, you MIGHT get lung cancer 40 years after they stopped -- but it's not likely.
I'm using this absurd example, because ALL of the other examples in the available scientific literature are equally absurd.
The second-hand smoke scare is a political farce. It was invented in the mid-1990s by the Clinton administration -- it has Hillary's hands all over it -- because anti-smoking radicals, who tend to be like anti-abortion radicals in their zealous devotion to the cause, actually convinced the Environmental Protection Agency to change its "conventional standard for statistical significance" so that second-hand smoke could be proven to be a killer.
Normally nobody but specialists would care -- substandard scientific reports get released all the time -- except that it's now being used to justify anti-smoking legislation that, in the case of New York City, could result in smokers not even being able to light up in their own clubs, their own bars, and, in one case, their own apartment buildings -- even if the place is clearly marked as a smoking establishment.
If Mayor Michael Bloomberg gets his way, they won't even be able to smoke in smoking lounges, cigar bars or tobacco shops.
Wouldn't the American way be to put a big sign on the front of your restaurant? "People Smoke In Here -- Don't Come In If It Bugs You." And then let everyone act like grownups?
The simple fact of the matter is that by about 1990 everyone had reached a compromise on this issue. Smokers would sit in smoking sections.
Ventilation systems would be installed in public buildings. Everyone would live and let live.
Not good enough for the smoke-haters. They knew that arguing against a legal substance on the basis that it was hurting the people who LIKED IT was a losing battle, and un-American besides. But if they could somehow prove that innocent people were dying ...
And so they proved it with "junk science." The Bush administration recently rejected a scientific report, 30 years in the making, signed by some of the top researchers in the world that said fossil fuels were the principle cause of global warming in the form of air pollution. The reason Bush rejected the findings: it was "junk science" from "the bureaucracy."
If that was junk science, then the second-hand smoke research comes from a junkyard infested with giant rats and scavenging stray dogs. Most of the available studies have "confidence intervals" right around 1.0 -- which means no confidence at all. And almost all of them fail to take into account the other sources of air pollution. It's as though our polluted air were made up of 140 parts car exhaust, 70 parts smoke from fossil-fuel-burning factories, 40 parts methane, and .0000001 parts smoke from that guy on the corner sneaking a cigarette on his lunch hour. So what do we do?
KILL THE SMOKER. HE'S DESTROYING THE AIR.
The fact is, there have been 40 epidemiological studies of second-hand smoke, almost all of them based on the experience of non-smokers married to smokers. Thirty-two of them found no evidence of second-hand smoke causing any disease at all. The other eight showed "weak association" -- but in some of the studies there was actually a NEGATIVE result, indicating that non-smoking spouses of smokers are LESS likely to get a serious disease.
Of course, the ones that showed a negative result were thrown out as wacky, but the others are equally wacky. For one thing, they're all infected with what science calls "recall bias." People interviewed are asked to reconstruct smoking patterns over their entire lifetimes, and it's been shown time and again that their memories are faulty, and in many cases, designed to mislead. The non-smoker frequently turns out to be a smoker for a portion of those years; he changes his story for insurance reasons or because of pending litigation. And the non-smoker with lung cancer tends to seek external causes and fasten on the most convenient one, even when we know that a person living in an urban area is subject to multiple possible causes of lung cancer, most of them far more potent than cigarette smoke.
Complicating the issue is the media treatment of second-hand smoke. If you say something often enough, it acquires the patina of truth even if the original basis for it is phony. I could use dozens of examples, but I'll just use the most recent one that I know of. Here's the lead paragraph from a July 12 article in the Globe and Mail, the Canadian newspaper:
"People who are routinely exposed to a lot of secondhand smoke, such as workers in bars and restaurants, can see their risk of lung cancer triple, a new study says. The Canadian study provides some of the most compelling scientific evidence yet for a total ban on workplace smoking, including bars and restaurants."
Okay, now let's look at the study the article was based on. It was published in the International Journal of Cancer and signed by a lead researcher for Health Canada -- a government agency with a vested interest. (Public health agency research tends to be uniformly alarmist.) Even so, the Globe and Mail's report leaves out the most important conclusion in the study:
"Although more years of and more intense residential passive smoke exposure tended to be associated with higher risk estimates, no clear dose-response relationship was evident."
Any particular reason this would be left out? Other than that it's inconvenient? Of course, to report the data without any agency spin on it, you would need to study the tables, evaluate the "confidence intervals," allow for "recall bias," and do all the other things scientists normally do, and journalists SHOULD do.
Apparently Australian journalists are a little more diligent. When the Australian National Health and Medical Research Council released a second-hand smoke report in 1997, the authors decided to omit the statistical tables entirely because they feared the press might study them.
An outraged judge eventually censured the government agency for what he called lying by omission -- the same thing that happened in a North Carolina court case, when a judge said the Environmental Protection Agency's report was rife with "cherry picking" of statistics, and had excluded half the available studies for no good reason. Later the Congressional Research Service issued a blistering report of its own, essentially calling the EPA study irresponsible and alarmist.
The reason the issue of second-hand smoke is such a raging issue right now is that it's being used as the rationale for additional anti-smoking laws. Waiters, bartenders and cooks need to be protected. This is what Bloomberg is basing his whole campaign on.
People might not LIKE smoke. They might find it unpleasant. But it's a huge jump to say it's actually harming their bodies, as though they were coal miners, soon to be diagnosed with Black Lung Disease. In fact, we have two studies that measured Environmental Tobacco Smoke -- the scientific name for it -- and came to the conclusion that, first of all, the smoke inhaled from the air is chemically and physically different from the smoke inhaled from the end of the cigarette, and, secondly, people who work eight hours a day in heavy-smoking environments had the following CE's (Cigarette Equivalents):
Sydney: 0.2
Prague: 1.4
Barcelona: 4.3
That's cigarettes PER YEAR. The worst case they could find had the bartender adding to his cancer risk at the rate of 4.3 cigarettes per year, which is, of course, like saying somebody who eats six Lifesavers is a candidate for heart disease.
Even more to the point, scientists computed what would happen if a 20-by-20-foot room with a 9-foot ceiling were filled with smoke, and then compared that exposure to the EPA's lowest published "danger" doses. Here are the results:
For the lowest level of danger for benzopyrene, you would need to have 222,000 cigarettes burning in the room. For the lowest level of acetone, you would need to burn 118,000 cigarettes. For the lowest level of hydrazine, you would need 14,000 cigarettes. And for toluene, you would need a cool million smokes, all burning at the same time. Unless, of course, you opened the door or window -- then you would need more.
John C. Bailar, writing in the New England Journal of Medicine recently, said that, if you sum up all the available evidence, the MOST alarming case you can make for second-hand smoke being related to disease is "We don't know." (He was primarily writing about heart disease, but the conclusions on lung cancer are similar.)
Bailar was being polite. We know. Get a ventilation fan. Put up a sign. Go to separate rooms. But let's not start a whole new era of Prohibition in which people have to open speakeasies and private clubs just to enjoy a meal or a drink. We can't all afford to go to Paris to smoke.
--
(John Bloom, a smoker, writes a number of columns for UPI and may be contacted at joebob@upi.com or through his Web site at joebobbriggs.com. Snail mail: P.O. Box 2002, Dallas, Texas 75221.)
You said it, years ago we had a neighbor causing a fire, had it not been for us breaking down the door, he would have died, a pot of potato's were on fire as was the stove itself, he was drunk as a skunk, never woke up until we woke him.......... he was not a smoker.
Just like I think your weren't wearing your face mask and oxygen pack on the Cairns 660 Metro. You must have been breathing in all those chemicals.
Exactly. And when they cure death, I might consider not smoking. heh!
Going over the edge.... are we.
As I have said before, I won a City wide squash tournament at the age of 40, beat a 26 year old non-smoker, stick that in your pipe and SMOKE it.
LOL! And nothing turns me off more then a beer guzzling stinky man with beer breath. And my bubba drinks beer, and I never divorced HIM!
And NOTHING TURNS ME OFF LIKE THE RETCHING ODOR OF A BEER DRINKER.
Stick around. It gets worse. I started a list awhile back about the anti-smokers in here. I am up to 35. Pity.
Ahhhhhhh Great Dane! Here you are!
DARN it! Wish you did have his email. And also, by rolling your own, you can produce a beautiful CARTON for under $8 dollars! It's the best! And by not paying into the state coffers anymore, makes it all that much sweeter.
Oh I will add you to my list. I got you on my list. LOL!
You just want to come in and flame us. But that's ok, we can handle it! :)
I like you too! Nice meeting you. Want me to add you to my Puff_List? Then you can join in all the lively discussions on smoking!
Hey! Thanks! :)
Although probably true, the subject is second hand smoke.
Avoidance of second hand smoke is an example of a behavior change to get healthier which does not work. This was the point.
And on the related topic, if genetically I am not predisposed to lung cancer what entitles you (or anyone else) to meddle in my private affairs?
Don't jump to conclusions about either genes and cancer, or about my opinions. I'm also in favor of personal freedom. Or do you consider someone else having a contrary opinion to yours to be "meddling" in your private affairs? This sounds like the people who say you can't oppose affirmative action on a college campus since it might hurt black students' feelings. I, a total stranger whom you will never meet, advise you not to smoke. How does that meddle with your freedom to smoke?
Actually, even if I were predisposed the same question is appropriate; Are you ready to outlaw all high risk recreation and life choices because you are neurotic or have a need to control others?
My wife and I teach our children that they should not smoke but should not be rude to those who do. If you feel that I am violating my own teachings by being rude to you here, I am sorry, but by posting on a subject one opens oneself up to hear contrary opinions on related topics. Unlike being an illegal drug user, being a smoker is fully consistent with being a responsible, law-abiding, contributing, decent member of society. My post was not intended to insult smokers, but it is impossible to fairly discuss second hand smoking without acknowledging that, unlike real smoking, second hand smoking is close to harmless. On the other hand, lifestyle choices of all kinds could save many more lives.
Evidence? My answer to this claim is: Maybe, but far fewer than is supposed.
Furthrmore they want to increase the tax $3.00 a pack.(have to help the deficit you know), with the logic of the libs, we stop kids from smoking, we raise the taxes per pack so that we can put that money in the general fund then we can have more programs, gee, wonder what would happen if the cigarettes sales took a downward trend, wonder what they would tax next?, don't say booze they decided against that.
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