AMNESTY FOR ILLEGAL ALIENS? (a question for Freepers)

August 22nd, 2002 | Sabertooth

[Sabertooth]

This is a vanity post, let's get that straight from the start.

Perhaps the most vain aspect of it is the conceit that it might stay on topic, but I'm going to give it a whirl.

One of the more contentious species of threads encountered on Free Republic are those dealing with the subject of America's immigration policy, particularly with regard to the Illegal Aliens currently in our country. According a range of reasonable sources, the estimates of their numbers here currently here range from six to thirteen million. Whatever the actual count, there are quite a few people now in violation of American immigration law.

One subtopic that inevitably arises is the question of Amnesty:

Should all or some portion of the Illegal Aliens be granted an Amnesty and be thereby allowed to change their status and acquire legal residence in the United States?

That's the question I'd like to put forward to the members of Free Republic.

Almost as inevitably on threads dealing with this subject, flame wars erupt. It's not my purpose to instigate another round of that, they're rather predictable. So I'd like to ask that your comments, if you're inclined to share them, focus on the big picture of American immigration policy, with particular attention to the subject of Amnesty. I'm not interested in the stock and gratuitous divisiveness of race-baiting or referring to the President as "Jorge," or anything of that nature from any quarter. It achieves nothing, it's sulphurous methane heat with no light shed.

I'd also like to avoid ad hominem ambushes. I'm genuinely interested in learning the collective feelings of Free Republic members on this subject. If you're gonna post, I'd like to ask that you ante up with your opinion on the question at hand before engaging the discussion with others. No taking potshots from the obscurity of the sidelines. I'll post my opinion below at #1.

Fair enough?

So, once again, here's the question:

Should all or some portion of the Illegal Aliens be granted an Amnesty and be thereby allowed to change their status and acquire legal residence in the United States?

[Valin]

Perhaps the most vain aspect of it is the conceit that it might stay on topic, but I'm going to give it a whirl.

Beautiful dreamer! :-)

[hchutch]

Quite simply, the fact of the matter is that there aren't any other options that I think would be right.

I'll admit my solution is not perfect, but some of the other options I've seen are option that I do not think are right, particularly if my brother's experiences over the course of his mission are the case.

I don't have all the answers, but I'm darn sure that kicking out folks who are busting their butts to make a better life for themselves is NOT the right answer.

[Ajnin]

Many of our citizens that report illegal aliens are Hispanic. Many of the Border Patrol Agents I work with are Hispanic. The way the media wails about open borders you would think that I was telling lies.

[Ajnin]

Why can't they bust their butts in Mexico and make a better life for themselves in their own country?

[GmbyMan]

>>> Should all or some portion of the Illegal Aliens be granted an Amnesty and be thereby allowed to change their status and acquire legal residence in the United States?
<<<<

1)Should the INS simply round up everyone who is illegal and in this country now and ship them back where they came from?

This is idiocy. The vast majority of Mexican illegals will be back in this country within a month after being deported. Furthermore, such drastic action is more than we have the resourses or the need to do given the fact that after coming into this country illegally, the vast majority of people (esp from Mexico) assimilate into our country and do not break any other laws. This isn't going to happen. We need to realize this to begin with.

2)Shouldn't we use the military to stop illegals from coming into our country then?

The military, which is now an all volunteer group with diminishing numbers has the more pressing problem of fighting terrorism overseas than stopping (mostly) gardeners from getting into our country from Mexico. Giving more support to the INS and finding out where the openings are in our border seem like a better way to do this. We also need to fire any PC motivated folks in the INS.

3)Yes, but aren't there a bunch of terrorists here illegally?

I have a hierarchy on whom to deport:

A)Anyone from a country hostile to the United States. Including, but not limited to, Saudi Arabians, Iraqis, Syrians, Egyptions, Sudanians, Yemenese, Lybians, Somalians, Jordanians, Palastinians, Pakistanis, Afghans, Iranians. We need to get rid of every one of these people before we deport the first person named Felipe.

B)Anyone who is here illegally who is a criminal Don't give the typical "just being here illegally is a crime" stuff, I mean a real crime like armed robbery or drug running. I also would like to see a little bit more time served for those who are illegal. Adding a premium on time served for all crimes to illegals would keep those wishing to come here to commit crimes to a minumum.

C)Anyone who is on the public dole at all. For this reason, I am in favor a complete background check for any person who applies for welfare of any kind. I believe in fingerprinting and full documentation for anyone who applies for welfare. I think these fingerprints need to be run to see whether the person is here legally or not. I believe that forcing people into the light of day before they can draw a welfare check would eventually eliminate those crossing the border to live off of welfare. If those already on welfare (food stamps, whatever program) can not agree to these terms, they will lose their benefits. If there is a rash of homeless illegals, I would deport them also (after fingerprinting, etc...).

D)That leaves those who in our country to work. For them, I believe we need to implement a guest worker program which allows those people to come and go with the seasons. Also, it would allow those people to apply for citizenship under the guise that they have been in our country working for some time. Those illegals in our country to do not sign up for this program will get deported. Those here on such a program need to be fingerprinted and not allowed to receive any gov assistance (ever).

Full amnesty? No. We need a plan. I do hope that George Bush picks a realist for INS chief and together they come up with something like the above.

[Valin]

1 wouldn't even need to put the army on the border), 2 Create a new brach of the military, specific to a border control/police mission.
How do you harmonize point 1 with point 2?

Build a BIG ass fence - think berlin type of ("wall") fence (barbed wire, big trenches, open spaces in which can easily be seen by either gaurd tower, etc.), and have every few hundred feet manned by a real human being.
From Brownsville Texas to San Diego Calf.?
This strikes me as
1 silly
2 futile
3 Not gonna happen.

No flame intended. Just saying my say.

[Sabertooth]

I'll admit my solution is not perfect, but some of the other options I've seen are option that I do not think are right, particularly if my brother's experiences over the course of his mission are the case.

I don't have all the answers, but I'm darn sure that kicking out folks who are busting their butts to make a better life for themselves is NOT the right answer.

As I understand your partial Amensty proposal at #65, millions of current Illegal Aliens would qualify.

Wouldn't that be a rather attractive magnet for more foreign nationals to enter our country as Illegals?

[robjna]

partial

[4Freedom]

Add more categories.

No amnesty, none.

5 year moratorium on all legal immigration.

No extention of 245i. (I know you consider this a partial amnesty, but the opposition doesn't.)

No guest worker or bracero program, none.

[hchutch]

I don't know the deal, but they are being a productive member of American society, even if they came here illegally. I'm less worried about the Illegal who is here working two jobs and being a productive member of our society than those who are calling for reparations for slavery.

[lavaroise]

Should all or some portion of the Illegal Aliens be granted an Amnesty and be thereby allowed to change their status and acquire legal residence in the United States?

Trespass, confinement, arrogance, unappologetic proselytist crusade, all those are what an illegal alien is, and all those are unacceptable. Beggars are supposed to admit their sins and be appologetic before asking for money, so that we all understand they respect a balance of power and submit to the balanced custody of the providers.

Illegals destroy the concept of charity for the good and punishment for evil doers.

[hchutch]

That might happen, but if we into place a good border security plan in conjuction with that partial amensty, then it's a risk I'm willing to run.

[Sabertooth]

Full amnesty? No. We need a plan. I do hope that George Bush picks a realist for INS chief and together they come up with something like the above.

Do I understand correctly that you favor a partial Amnesty?

Would the Illegal Aliens you'd Amnesty be counted against our current immigration caps, or would they break them?

[Valin]

And now answer your question.
If I thought it would have ny effect on solveing this problem I'd be for it. But (as others have pointed out) we've been there done that, and it just made things worse.
IMO the answer lies in changeing the culture/economy of Mexico/centeral america, so as to take away the insentive for these people to pack up and come up here. It has struck me over the last year or so that the people coming over our border are (for the most part) EXACTLY the type of people these government should be doing all in their power to keep at home.

[rockfish59]

Build a 1,500 mile double concertina wire wall on the border and have it watched by the National Guard!!
Then deport all the current illegals.
I don't think we have to worry much about the Canadians since they hate us anyway.

[taxed2death]

The answer to your real question is this: George Bush is a complete sellout. You should ask your fearless leader why he didn't attent the funeral of the US park ranger shot and killed last week in Arizona. He won't protect our borders......he's looking for the beaner vote in 2004. I still can't believe I voted for this guy.

[Sabertooth]

That might happen [Amnesty might attract more Illegal Aliens], but if we into place a good border security plan in conjuction with that partial amensty, then it's a risk I'm willing to run.

Given your concern at #65:

Poohbah's pointed out the logistics of fully militarizing the border - which some of the hard-liners on this issue want to do.

Can you describe your "good border security plan?"

[Spiff]

Should all or some portion of the Illegal Aliens be granted an Amnesty and be thereby allowed to change their status and acquire legal residence in the United States?

Hey, bank robbers just want a better life for themselves and their families. I think they should be granted Amnesty too. /sarcasm

All Illegal Aliens need to be rounded up and shipped out. Mexican illegals should not be dropped at the Mexico/US border, but instead at the Mexico/Guatemala border. Other foreign illegals should be treated similarly in order to prevent them from attempting another illegal border crossing/invasion of our nation.

[Japedo]

Should all or some portion of the Illegal Aliens be granted an Amnesty and be thereby allowed to change their status and acquire legal residence in the United States?

IMO ALL Portions of the Illegal Aliens should be Granted a Ticked back to their homeland. They can apply to enter this country LEGALLY if they wish to be here. And start by Respecting the law of the land. Now Had saying that, Any Person living in the US of A caught we send a bill of what they owe (any medical, SS, what have you) They must be paid back the money they ripped off from the American Tax Payer if they wish to even be Considered Granted Citizenship.
Live Free or Die Trying

[KansasGirl]

Should all or some portion of the Illegal Aliens be granted an Amnesty and be thereby allowed to change their status and acquire legal residence in the United States?

ABSOLUTELY NOT!!