AMNESTY FOR ILLEGAL ALIENS? (a question for Freepers)

August 22nd, 2002 | Sabertooth

[Sabertooth]

This is a vanity post, let's get that straight from the start.

Perhaps the most vain aspect of it is the conceit that it might stay on topic, but I'm going to give it a whirl.

One of the more contentious species of threads encountered on Free Republic are those dealing with the subject of America's immigration policy, particularly with regard to the Illegal Aliens currently in our country. According a range of reasonable sources, the estimates of their numbers here currently here range from six to thirteen million. Whatever the actual count, there are quite a few people now in violation of American immigration law.

One subtopic that inevitably arises is the question of Amnesty:

Should all or some portion of the Illegal Aliens be granted an Amnesty and be thereby allowed to change their status and acquire legal residence in the United States?

That's the question I'd like to put forward to the members of Free Republic.

Almost as inevitably on threads dealing with this subject, flame wars erupt. It's not my purpose to instigate another round of that, they're rather predictable. So I'd like to ask that your comments, if you're inclined to share them, focus on the big picture of American immigration policy, with particular attention to the subject of Amnesty. I'm not interested in the stock and gratuitous divisiveness of race-baiting or referring to the President as "Jorge," or anything of that nature from any quarter. It achieves nothing, it's sulphurous methane heat with no light shed.

I'd also like to avoid ad hominem ambushes. I'm genuinely interested in learning the collective feelings of Free Republic members on this subject. If you're gonna post, I'd like to ask that you ante up with your opinion on the question at hand before engaging the discussion with others. No taking potshots from the obscurity of the sidelines. I'll post my opinion below at #1.

Fair enough?

So, once again, here's the question:

Should all or some portion of the Illegal Aliens be granted an Amnesty and be thereby allowed to change their status and acquire legal residence in the United States?

[COB1]

Sorry, Saber, that I didn't answer the question directly.
I do not, under any circumstances, support amnesty for ANY illegals in this country whether they come from Mexico or Tibet.

Thanks for the topic.
Let's hope it proceeds as a debate; my asbestos suit is in the cleaners.

[philosofy123]

The Mexican illegal alien question is a separate problem. Mexican lobbyists and large farms work with the government on this periodically. The 9/11 is a different problem, it is a result of organized religious hate underground cells allover the world. These cells are not simply a bunch of misfits, they are actually elite military/spy people funded by Moslem countries, and sometime from open national budgets of certain nations. It should have been interpreted as an a foreign declaration of war on the US, and followed up with air raid of destruction on these nations. I don't care how friendly these nations are to our government. That does not mean a thing, when you fund people to bow up things in my country, you will pay dearly!

Accordingly, we should have bombed Saudi Arabia, and Egypt; the next week after the attack. Innocent people will die, yes, but our innocent people died too. So don't mess with us again. However, good thing I am not the President? Or may we should have a president that deal with these things straight on, no BS about our friendly Arab allies! I am screaming in front of the TV every time our government keep saying Saudi Arabia is our friend and ally.

[antisocial]

No amnesty for any illegal aliens, Deportation of all current illegal aliens, freeze on all legal immigration for at least 1 year to allow the incompetant INS to catch up on the backlog of data entry and to convert to the new immigration tracking and identification system.

[glock rocks]

Illegal

I come for visit, get treated regal, So I stay, who care I illegal? I
cross border, poor and broke, Take bus, see employment folk.

Nice man treat me good in there, Say I need to see welfare. Welfare say,
"You come no more, We send cash right to your door."

Welfare checks, they make you wealthy, Medicaid it keep you healthy! By
and by, I got plenty money, Thanks to you, American dummy.

Write to friends in motherland, Tell them come as fast as you can. They
come in rags and Chebby trucks, I buy big house with welfare bucks.

They come here, we live together, More welfare checks, it gets better!
Fourteen families they moving in, But neighbor's patience wearing thin.

Finally, white guy moves away, Now I buy his house, and then I say,
"Find more aliens for house to rent." And in the yard I put a tent.

Send for family (they just trash), But they, too, draw the welfare cash!
Everything is mucho good, And soon we own the neighborhood.

We have hobby--it's called breeding, Welfare pay for baby feeding. Kids
need dentist? Wife need pills? We get free! We got no bills!

American crazy! He pay all year, To keep welfare running here. We think
America darn good place! Too darn good for the white man race.

If they no like us, they can go, Got lots of room in Mexico.

[hchutch]

I'm in category 2.

I believe those who have a job and who have committed no crimes other than entering illegally ought to be allowed to remain and tracked into either a bracero program or permanent residence that should not displace those currently going through the process. They should be required to develop proficiency in the English language, and English ought to be the official language of the United States.

I'm on record as favoring deportation of criminals, those caught entering with drugs, those who have gone on welfare, or who are believers in Aztlan.

I'm open as to the time period for which a partial amnesty would be in effect, and as to the specific details, but I do not think there should be a "deport `em all" policy. Those who have been employed, who are working hard and busting their butts to make it here, ought to be allowed to remain, and go legit.

To be quite honest, I feel I have more in common in a cultural sense with those "Illegals" who have taken major risks to get into this country than I do with those who have their hands out for reparations or Euroweenies who seem to enjoy slamming us.

Free Republic calls for "the EFFECTIVE control of illegal immigration" in the About page. And I think that there is room for debate on what exactly would constitute EFFECTIVE control.

For me, I'd rather DOJ focus on the violent criminals, drug smugglers, welfare sponges, and the Aztlan separatists and leave the folks who are hard workers alone.

Based on the experiences my brother had over his two-year mission for our church, I think that the Tancredo-Buchanan crowd has grossly underestimated the ability and willingness of a lot of these "Illegals" to assimilate.

Poohbah's pointed out the logistics of fully militarizing the border - which some of the hard-liners on this issue want to do. Quite frankly, I take very strong issue with a the rhetoric used by a lot of the hard-liners on this matter.

I do not believe that our system of government can only work for a European culture, and I have SERIOUS issues with those who make that argument. I have serious issues with those who want to scale back immigration (I do think we need to cut immigration from Arab nations and Africa to a large extent, and instead focus more on Eastern Europe and Mexico), or even impose a moratorium. If either of those two policies were in effect a while back, then Sabertooth's pick to head the INS might not be in the U.S. at all, and Michelle Malkin would be worrying about Abu Sayyef. Or, as another example, Bailint Vazsonyi might have been in a gulag - if he was lucky.

I don't think that the color of one's skin matters one iota in their potential to achieve in this country. Ask Colin Powell, Linda Chavez, Michelle Malkin, Bill Gates, Ken Griffey Jr., J.C. Watts, Miguel Estrada, or Al Gonzales (the White House Counsel).

I think Bush is pushing the best proposal for all involved, and I'll back him to the hilt on it.

[PBRSTREETGANG]

Amnesty?

Absolutely not!

[georgiabelle]

No amnesty for ANYONE who is illegal. They should all be sought out and deported. If they have anchor babies then they should have a choice of leaving them here in orphanages, or taking them with them and denouncing their citizenship. Also that law should be changed.

I'm sure I'm going to be flamed for that comment. But I'm sick of hearing "It's for the children." Let their own countries take care of them. My county is opening up schools that have been closed and are over 60 years old. One busdriver told me that she has 67 children on her bus and 9 of them are white. The rest are hispanic and only a few speak English. She only has 5 stops. This is a small town but we have chickenplants for them to work.

Maybe we should tell Washington that the day they give amnesty that will be the day we ALL stop paying taxes. After all we are certainly not being represented. It's going to be hard for them to arrest us all.

So NO (after my rant) to any AMENESTY.

[Sabertooth]

My position: No amnesty -- a 5-year moratorium on imigration.

And you're hearing this from a latino.

Thanks for your stand-up comments, JH2.

For me, outside of immigration from the Arab Moslem nations who are a special consideration because of the War on Terror (can we call it a Crusade, yet?), the moratorium question is a function of assimilation.

Are new immigrants assimilating quickly enough to share the bounties and responsibilities of US residence?

I think the answer currently is no, for a few reasons:

1. Multiculturalism, by definition.

2. Bilingualism, particulary with regard to citizenship, government documents, and radio and TV broadcasting.

3. Illegal Aliens, who by the very act of their illegal presence demonstrate an unwillingness to abide by our laws, the first requirement of assimilation. Since many Illegals hide in plain sight in immigrant communities, their influence on assimilation in those communities is negative.

I think that if the problem with Illegals is addressed, the pull of American cultural assimilation will overwhelm factors 1 and 2, though I'd like to see those addressed also. So, I would oppose a moratorium on immigration for the time being, to see how some of the other matters work out.

Also, I think a simultaneous push against Illegals and for a moratorium is doomed to failure.

[Bernard Marx]

We tried that once, under Reagan. We can all see the result: more of the same, except this time the numbers are bigger.

Unless a nation controls its borders it isn't a nation. Amnesty is just another way of invalidating the law. What is it that our government doesn't understand about the word "illegal?"

[Sir Gawain]

Door #3, silly.

[BornOnTheFourth]

Your post reminds me of a photo shoot I did a few years ago. It was for a teacher of the year recipient nearby. She taught a primary grade and in her class, the children collectively spoke six languages! She refused to teach them bilingually, tho, speaking to them in English only. She told me that the children were picking up English rapidly and were doing well in their studies--even the Russian children. It was amazing to see--the children beaming as they read aloud in English.

That day forever cemented my belief that bilingual education is a tragedy and should be struck down immediately.

[Sabertooth]

I'm in category 2. I believe those who have a job and who have committed no crimes other than entering illegally ought to be allowed to remain and tracked into either a bracero program or permanent residence that should not displace those currently going through the process.

What then, is the point of prospective immigrants even going through the application process?

Why wouldn't foreign nationals just get into the United States by hook or by crook, and take advantage of your Amnesty?

If your partial Amnesty doesn't displace applicants currently going through the process, thereby busting our legislated immigration caps, what is the effective difference between your plan and a virtually open border?

[JohnHuang2]

Also, I think a simultaneous push against Illegals and for a moratorium is doomed to failure.

Unfortunately, that's the political reality.

Though, as I explained to another freeper, you'd might be amazed how much support there is in the latino community for immigration moratoriums, opposition to amnesties, support for quotas and other limits.

Recall that Calif. Prop 187 passed with majority latino support (If memory serves, the final tally was 55% in favor). It's just that the loud mouths draw all the ink and airtime -- and media sympathy.

[missycocopuffs]

No reward for illegally entering this country: no amnesty.

[WhirlwindAttack]

No Amnesties for Illegal Aliens, Deport them NOW!

[Ajnin]

NO AMNESTY!

[CJ Wolf]

Should all or some portion of the Illegal Aliens be granted an Amnesty and be thereby allowed to change their status and acquire legal residence in the United States?

No. But, I would support an Amnesty from prosecution if they left immediately... :-)

[Barnacle]

Where are you going with this post? (Well, someone had to say it.)

Ordinarily, I'd say no amnesty, but allow for an appeals process. But, the problem is too immense for the court system to handle. Lawyers would tie things up so bad, that the illegals would remain hear permanently waiting appeal hearings and we'd pay for it too.

So, I say no amnesty, no appeals. Let's make room for those who wish to immigrate legally and obey the laws of our land.

[Ajnin]

Glad to have you aboard. I can definitely sympathize with you about the process of legalization. I work for the INS/Border Patrol and I see these people cutting in line everyday.

[Barnacle]

I look forward to calling you, "My fellow American".