USO Canteen FReeper Style Monday Mail Call .... August 12,2002

Interesting stuff, Valin. Never knew all that. What facts you learn on the USO Canteen - just like on all of Free Republic.

THANK YOU - THANK YOU - THANK YOU !!!!! For these terrific pictures. Have I told you how much I LOVE and RESPECT our President!!! God be with him and protect him.

I'll be back in a few hours.
I woke up early to read the Mail.
I have to be at work at 11:30AM PST
So I'll grab a little more shut eye and post again before I leave.
God Bless and Protect our military.
God Bless the USO Canteen.

1914 John Philip Holland, submarine designer, dies

John Philip Holland
(1841 - 1914)

John Philip Holland was born in the village of Liscannor, Ireland on February 24, 1841. - the second child of John Holland and Maryy Scanlon. His Father patrolled the headlands of County Clare as a rider with the British Coastguard Service. His mother was a local girl. John had an older brother Albert, and two younger brothers: Robert and Michael.

Little is known about John's boyhood. He lost his brother Robert and two uncles to illness during the Great Famine of 1847. John probably attended St. Macreehy's National School in Liscannor and the Christian Brothers secondary school in Ennistomy. The family moved to Limerick when he was twelve. On June 15, 1858, John Holland joined the Order of the Irish Christian Brothers and trained to be a teacher.

“I was a schoolmaster in Cork, Ireland, when your civil war was in progress,” [Holland] remarked, “and about two weeks after the battle between the Monitor and the Merrimac [March 9, 1862], it struck me very forcibly that the day of wooden walls for vessels of war had passed, and that ironclad ships had come to stay forever. I reflected that with her tremendous facilities England would apply them to the situation and become the chief naval power of the world; and I wondered how she could be retarded in her designs upon the other peoples of the world, and how they would protect themselves against those designs.“1

The seed was planted, but it did not take root immediately for John developed an interest in flight. "My first design was made in 1863, shortly before I began the study of submarines, but I had no suspicion of the influence of the chief, almost the only, natural force employed by every flying animal"2 His first submarine design was developed in 1869, while teaching in Dunkalk, Ireland.

John's younger brother, Michael, had escaped to the United States following the abortive Irish rebellion in 1865-1867. His mother and brother, Alfred, left Ireland in 1872 bound for Boston Massachusetts. Then, on May 26, 1873, John Holland withdrew from the Irish Christian Brothers and prepared to join his family in America.

Shortly after arriving in Boston, John slipped on an icy street and was confined to his rooms. His thoughts turned to the problems of submarine navigation. The following year, John accepted a position as a teacher at St. John’s Parochial School in Paterson, NJ.

John Holland’s brother Michael introduced him to members of the Irish Fenian Brotherhood in 1876. The Fenian Society financed the construction of John Holland’s first three submarines. However, disagreements within the Fenian Brotherhood resulted in the theft of the Fenian Ram and the 16-foot model on a dark night in late November 1883. John Holland severed his relationship with the Fenian Brotherhood after this incident.

John Holland was now 42 years old and chose not to return to teaching school. He took a job as a draftsman at Roland’s Iron Works in New York City. The following year, he accepted a position with Army Lieutenant Edmond Zalinski’s Pneumatic Gun Company. Encouraged by this, Lieutenant Zalinski began promoting the idea of a submarine armed with a pneumatic gun. This led to the construction of the "Zalinski boat" on the grounds of Fort Lafayette in 1885 and 1886.

John Holland married Margaret Foley in Brooklyn on January 17, 1887. John and Margaret had seven children - John P. (1888 - died in infancy), John P. (1890 - 19??), Robert Charles (1891-19??), Julia (1894-1913), Joseph Francis (died 1942), Mary Josephine (died in infancy) and Marguerite (1897 - 1960).3

"In 1888, the United States Navy Department announced an open competition for the design of a submarine torpedo boat that would meet the following specifications:

Speed: 15 knots on the surface, 8 knots submerged

Power endurance: 2 hours submerges at 8 knots, provisions for 90 hours.

Ease of maneuvering: circle in no greater space than 4 times her length.

Stability: assured normal or positive buoyancy at all times.

Structural strength: sufficient to withstand pressure at depth of 150 feet.

Power of offense: torpedoes with 100-pound charge of gun cotton."4
John Holland won this competition, but no contract was awarded. Discouraged, John Holland turned his attention to the problems of mechanical flight. Unable to find a backer for his aircraft designs, John Holland accepted a position as draftsman with Morris and Cummings Dredging Company. John Holland worked for Charles Morris until 1893.

On February 27, 1893, a young lawyer named Elihu B. Frost told Charles Morris that he would consider forming a company to provide Holland with the necessary capital to continue his submarine experiments. When Congress appropriated $200,000 to cover another competition for a submarine torpedo boat on March 3, 1893, Frost decided that the time was right. At short time later, Frost met with John Holland and agreed to loan him the money needed to prepare his bid. The Holland Torpedo Boat Company was formed that spring. Elihu B. Frost assumed the role of secretary treasurer and John Holland became a manager with a salary of $50.00 per month.

The rumor was that John Holland won the 1893 competition but the Navy Board decided to examine George Baker’s existing boat before making an official announcement. In the end, the money to fund construction of a submarine was diverted to other construction projects and construction of the Plunger was delayed two years.

The construction of the Plunger proceeded slowly. There were many changes and delays. The Navy requirements could not be met and Holland became frustrated dealing with the Navy Department. By the fall of 1896, Holland realized that the Plunger would be a failure. He sought and received approval from the Holland Torpedo Boat Company to build his sixth submarine as a private venture - free from Navy interference.

The Holland VI took shape on the ways of Lewis Nixon’s Crescent Shipyard in Elizabethport New Jersey during the spring of 1897 and was launched on May 17, 1897. Construction continued throughtout the year and trials began the following March. Frank Cable replaced John Holland as trial captain in late 1898 following incidents of forgetfulness and inattentiveness. John Holland was 57 years old, but his mind never stopped working. He had learned much during the trials of the Holland VI and was hard at work designing an improved (type 7) submarine. The specification and drawings for the type 7 were forwarded to the Navy in November 1899.

The purchase of the Holland VI on April 11, 1900 lead to many discussions regarding the size of the submarine fleet and what to do with the submarines. The Naval Appropriation Act of 7 June 1900 provided for the construction of five improved Holland boats. Construction began in late 1900. These boats were built under the supervision of Naval Constructor Lawrence Spear - a conservative technician with no experience with submarines. The inventor and the constructor battled. John Holland was demoted from General Manager to Chief Engineer.

As the company’s focus changed from developing a working submarine to marketing and construction, the friction between John Holland and Electric Boat management grew. Lawrence Spear was hired by Electric Boat as vice-president and naval architect in 1902. Eventually Holland had enough, and on March 28, 1904, John Holland resigned. He was 63 years old.

John Holland was down but not out. He still had ideas and friends. Unfortunately, he had very little money. He designed a submarine capable of 22 knots. When he presented this to the Navy, their conclusion was "that while the inventor unquestionably could acheive the speeds he claimed for his boat, the dangers inherent in such a swift craft were too great to accept; further, the speed of a vessel running submerged should never exceed six knots because of the difficulties of navigating underwater."5

All attempts by John Holland to re-enter the submarine business were effectively thwarted by the Electric Boat company who filed a suit against him "applying for an injunction, and claiming substantially that [he] had agreed to assign to them all [his] inventions and patents during the term of [his] natural life." They also filed suit to prevent him from using the name "Holland" and alleging a verbal contract never to compete with Electric Boat.

John Holland was beaten. He quietly withdrew from public life and resumed his work on aircraft.

On 12 August 1914, John Holland succumbed to pneumonia. He was 73 years old. "Forty days later, the German Navy’s U-9 torpedoed the British cruisers Aboukir, Cressy, and Hogue off the Dutch coast. A submarine of only four hundred and fifty tons, manned by twenty-six men, had sunk thirty-six thousand tons of the enemy’s ships and had sent some fourteen hundred men to their death in the waters of the North Sea."6

That story is wonderful! Thanks for posting it!

Corrie Ten Boom, who spent over a year in solitary confinement in one of the horrorible prisons during Nazi Germany's terrible time in power in Europe - because she and her family harbored and helped Jewish people during that reign of terror - wrote always:

"The Best Is Yet To Be"

Now I will think of "save your fork" story along with Corrie's comments to remember and savor those we are with now, the times we have now, the friends and loved ones we have now - but will also remember, that for God's children, the best is yet to be!

I've always enjoyed stories like this...
It reminds us that optimism is a good thing!

Thanks, Tonk, for the reminder - will be sending some emails later today. Your reminders are always helpful to those of us with short term memory loss ... LOL!

Sassy Mom = glad you like those pictures? Aren't they wonderful? Such a contrast to that wineswilling, Martha's Vineyard grubbing imposter who was in the White House before President Bush.

You did see his comments to reporters?

Oh - and just for you - one more beautiful picture of a Commander in Chief of whom all Americans and all in our military can be proud:

Yeah, I thought some people might want to overdose on this guy's beautiful voice this morning.

I apologize for not bumping you.
I didn't realize that you're not on this computer's bump list..........but you are now!
Have a great one!

Thank you for the Don Williams tunes. Love that guy! (And you too!)

1071 Turks rout Byzantines at Manzikert, killing Emperor Romanus II, brings Islam to Europe.

That Terrible Day
The Byzantine defeat at Manzikert, AD 1071

The battle of Manzikert was such a shattering defeat that the Byzantines were never able to speak of it as other than "that terrible day". It was on that terrible day in 1071 that "Anatolia, heartland of Byzantium,.. was lost forever to Christendom". In one catastrophic day the eastern Roman Empire had lost its major recruiting region, its major grain producing region, and its vital trade route between Constantinople and the riches of the East.

The Emperor Romanus IV Diogenes was crowned on January 1st, 1068. According to Norwich, he was an arrogant man with a strong sense of his own importance but he was also a brave soldier. Romanus understood the threat the Seljuks posed to his empire. At home in Constantinople, Romanus had to deal with Michael Psellus and the Ducas family who, according to Norwich, loathed him and his rise to power and were resolved to bring about his destruction. The strength of this ill-feeling towards him made it virtually impossible for Romanus to leave Constantinople on campaigns, because every time he left there was the possibility of one of his enemies attempting a coup. This, however, played to his advantage because he was able to devote his energies to improving the army, obtaining new equipment, implementing new training programs and recruiting new forces. The truce that had recently been made with the Turkish leader Alp Arslan was continually being broken by the marauding Turkomans and was generally considered by Romanus as a failure. Romanus was already planning a campaign for 1071, with an army of some seventy thousand men.

According to Runciman, the army assembled by Romanus in 1071 was:

no longer the magnificent force it had been fifty years before..... The cavalry regiments, sixty thousand strong, that had patrolled the Syrian frontier... were now disbanded. The imperial guards, hand-picked and highly trained Anatolians, were far below their old strength. The bulk of the army consisted now of foreign mercenaries, the Norsemen of the Varangian Guard, Normans and Franks from western Europe, Slavs from the north, and Turks from the steppes of southern Russia, Petcheneg, cuman and Ghuzz. Out of these elements Romanus collected a force of nearly a hundred thousand men, of which perhaps half were Byzantine born.

This expedition crossed the Bosphorus in the second week of March 1071, and then headed eastward. The historian Michael Attaleiates was present; it is his version of events of that summer that remains the most detailed and trustworthy account of the Battle at Manzikert. Two-hundred miles into the journey, Romanus' demeanour is said to have changed dramatically. Attaleiates suggests that Romanus had been disturbed by various bad omens, among them being the sudden breakage of his tent pole, the unexplained fire in his tent that damaged most of his personal possessions and the loss of many of his best horses and mules. The Emperor's determination remained firm, realising that if he were to return to Constantinople without having engaged the Seljuks on the battle field, he would have little chance of maintaining his role as Emperor.

According to Norwich, Romanus sent the greater part of the Roman army towards Lake Van, under the command of the experienced general Joseph Tarchaniotes, while he himself and his senior commander Nicephorus Byrennius continued with the remainder of the army towards the little fortress town of Manzikert. Tarchaniotes and his force met with misfortune of some sort, but it is not certain what happened. Later Moslem historians claimed that he had been overwhelmed in a great battle, but there is no contemporary evidence for this. Norwich believes that Tarchaniotes may have deliberately abandoned the emperor and was really a traitor, a tool of the Ducas family.

On the other hand, Runciman tells us that Joseph Tarchaniotes was Turkish born, and commanded the largest contingent of mercenaries, the Turkish Cumans. He believes that 'the Cumans, remembering that they were Turks and in arrears with their pay, had gone over in a body on the previous night to join the enemy' Whatever happened to Tarchaniotes, Romanus was now left to fight the Turks with less than half his army. His corps d'elite, the Norman and Frankish heavy cavalry, decided to take no part in the battle.
There is no certainty about the actual date and location of the battle; the actual date varies from 5th August to 26th of August. Moslem historians are unanimous that it took place on a Friday in August; Michael Attaleiates says that it was a moonless night, and, according to Norwich, this means that it must have been the 26th. The most likely location is a fairly level steppe with rougher and hillier country close by, beyond which is a line of foothills cut through with ravines and gullies - ideal ambush territory - about a mile or two from the fortress of Manzikert.

There are no contemporary eye-witness accounts of the events of that day, other than Michael Attaleiates. According to Jasper Streater "Arab historians for two centuries wrote of it in great detail, and sometimes in rhyme, and no two agreed on the size of the armies engaged." Anna Comnena refers to the battle very briefly towards the end of her history when she is narrating her father's dealings with the Turkish sultan Saisan:

(Alexius) made a speech, explaining his decision in full.'If you are willing' he said, 'to yield to the authority of Rome and to put an end to your raids on the Christians, you will enjoy favours and honour, living in freedom for the rest of your lives on lands set aside for you. I refer to the lands where you used to dwell before Romanus Diogenes became emperor and before he met the sultan in battle - an unfortunate and notorious clash which ended in the Roman's defeat and capture..'

Anna's husband, Nicephorus Byrennius, whose grandfather took part in the battle, also wrote an account of the action. According to this, fighting began on the day before the actual battle, when Romanus sent out a detachment of troops to drive off what he believed to be a small band of turkish marauders, then later a larger detachment led by Byrennius himself. Byrennius found himself 'confronted with what must have been a considerable proportion of the entire Seljuk army' By nightfall, it must have been clear that the Byzantine army would have to fight when the day came.

The expected battle did not take place on the next day. Instead, a Turkish delegation came with an offer of peace. Romanus dismissed the idea of a division of the Armenian territory proposed to him by the embassy. According to Streater, this was an inexplicable error on his part, a failure to exploit the growing rift between two branches of Islam, the Shi'ites and the Sunni. Alp Arslan had been intent on marching against the Fatimid dynasty in Egypt and only turned north reluctantly to deal with the Byzantine threat. Romanus could have exploited the Moslem quarrel to his own advantage. His refusal made the battle certain.

It seems likely that Romanus now organised his men on the battle field in the style of the traditional army manuals, that is, a long line several ranks deep, with the cavalry on the ends. Romanus himself took the centre, with Bryennius on his left and a general named Alyattes on his right. The rearguard was composed of the private armies of the great landowners, under the command of Andronicus Ducas, the nephew of the late Emperor. Andronicus should never have been allowed to participate in the battle, let alone to lead the rearguard, as he made no secret of his contempt and loathing for Romanus. However, Romanus no doubt thought it better to have Andronicus under his watchful eye, rather than at home in Constantinople where he was likely to stir up more trouble, or so Romanus thought.

The imperial army advanced across the steppe towards the Seljuks, who steadily withdrew into a crescent, allowing their archers to shower the Byzantine's flanks with arrows. The cavalry, probably angered by the Seljuks' archery, followed the Seljuk horsemen towards the foothills and fell straight into prepared ambushes. The Emperor remained on the battlefield, frustrated by the lack of enemy. Realising that there was nothing further to gain from pursuit, especially as the sun was setting and he had left his camp practically undefended, Romanus ordered the imperial standards to be reversed, the signal to withdraw. Alp Arslan had been waiting for this signal from his observation point in the hills above and ordered his men to attack. As Arslan's men poured down onto the steppe, the Romans broke in confusion. Many of the mercenary units retreated, assuming that the Emperor had been killed or captured, and this allowed the Seljuks to infiltrate the front line and separate it from the rearguard. Had the rearguard acted correctly by moving forward they would have prevented the Seljuks' escape. Instead, Andronicus spread the word that the emperor had been killed and the battle lost, and subsequently fled. This act caused more confusion among the remaining troops and more and more of them fled the battlefield. Only the Emperor remained with his personal guards around him. Romanus fought valiantly until the end:

The emperor was completely isolated and deprived of reinforcement. Then he charged, his sword bare, killed more than one Turk and forced others to flee. But finally, surrounded by a mass of enemies, he was wounded in the hand. Recognized by the enemy, hemmed in on all sides, he was captured when an arrow wounded his horse, which slipped and lost its footing, felling its rider at the same time

Romanus was treated by Alp Arslan with the respect that his position entailed. For the next week, Romanus remained as a guest in the Turkish camp and ate at Alp Arslan's table. The peace terms were more than moderate and merciful. The Sultan only demanded the surrender of Manzikert, Antioch, Edessa and Hieropolis as well as one of Romanus' daughters as a wife for one of Arslan's sons. The ransom for Romanus was even reduced from ten million to half a million, with a further three-hundred and sixty thousand in annual tribute. Romanus was then allowed to return to Constantinople, because of the very real danger of a threat to his throne. Romanus had hoped to return to Constantinople as Emperor, but these feeling were not shared by the inhabitants of Constantinople. The news of the defeat had come as the second cracking blow in one year, as 1071 had also seen the fall of Byzantine Italy to the Normans led by Robert Guiscard. This is how the arrival of the news was described by Nicephorus Byrennius:

A very few days passed before one of the fugitives arrived at Constantinople as bearer of evil tidings, and then there was another, then a third and a fourth, having nothing precise to announce except the catastrophe itself...... The matter was discussed in council by Empress Eudocia, Romanus' wife, who was asking what she had to do. Everyone agreed that it was necessary provisionally to abandon Romanus to his fate, whether he was prisoner or dead, and that the empress must secure the power for herself and her sons. Everyone was still in suspense when it was decided that the empress-mother and Michael Ducas, the eldest of her sons, should share the empire under the following conditions: Eudocia should have the honours due to the mother of the emperor, but she should share with her son the reality of supreme power.

Romanus was able to gather together what was left of his army with the intention of marching into Constantinople and reclaiming the throne from his step-son, Michael VII Ducas. There were two battles before Romanus reached Constantinople, both against John Ducas and in both Romanus was defeated. After the second battle he gave himself up to Andronicus, agreeing to renounce all claims to the throne and to retire to a monastery. In return he was given assurance that no harm would come to him on his return to Constantinople However, Andronicus put Romanus on a mule for the five-hundred mile journey back to Constantinople and allowed him to be attacked by onlookers, one of whom poked out his eyes. Romanus died in the summer of 1072.

The Battle of Manzikert can be seen as the most disastrous battle in the history of Byzantine civilization. Romanus was a brave and gallant leader, but it was his naivety in trusting Andronicus with leadership of the rearguard and his lack of information of the enemy's movements which caused the East Roman army's worst defeat ever.

From yesterday's thread, you said something about armadillos:

the armadillo is found all over the South..:)))

We had them in Florida (where I grew up) by the gazillion - here in South Carolina - had them in North Carolina.

One silver one there used to come up on the back deck often and look in through the sliding glass doors, and ask "How yew be??!!"

LOL ! But one thing about Texas armadillos: They sing and can
play the guitar!:

Oh, bury me on the lone prairie!.....

Check out #71 too, Maxwell !

Did someone say "MAIL CALL"

What facts you learn on the USO Canteen

You and me both. I often pick a subject that I don't know much or nothing about.
Interestingly For much of the Civil War(or War of Northern Aggression) it was in the west that the Federals had their most/only success. Grant, Sherman, Halleck all came out of this theater.

I know the Canteeners appreciate us for standing on the corner every Friday, whether it be 109 degrees or 36degrees, whether it be rainy, frosty, foggy or humid. Many of them stop by the thread to give us some encouragement. It is greatly appreciated!

Bring on any water aerobic tips you have, please. I can't do the "on land" thing - broke my back when I was 8 months preggers with my 14 year old and have never quite gotten the spring back in my step. With a pool right outside my back door I should be able to manage SOMETHING more than floating around with a tall cool one, though.

By the way, yes, there are hills in LA, but not where I live. Can you say swampland? Can I get credit for a steep flight of stairs?

Hello, friend!..:)))

Thank you for the Dubya Dose!

Having seen him REALLY, REALLY up close when he came to my small town just before the South Carolina Primary, I can attest to his appearance as that of a proud and hard-working man.

Can you imagine how thrilled I was when he stood before me and whipped up his pen and signed the lapel sign I'd made on my computer that said "VETERAN FOR BUSH"??!!

As he signed it, he commented "I saw this earlier!"

My position, arriving early, was a mere 12' from where he spoke.
South Carolina gave him his FIRST primary win, and set him down the path to vistory.

It is often hard to bear the tears that we ourselves have caused. Marcel Proust

We can always count upon yew Texans to top us all!!!

LOVE the graphic - LOL!
(izzatyew, Don??)