Posted on 08/10/2002 10:30:07 AM PDT by HAL9000
Dell No Longer Selling Systems w/o Microsoft OS
Posted by CmdrTaco on Saturday August 10, @01:17PM
from the yer-bringing-me-down-man dept.Some Sys Admin sent in an email that he got from Dell which basically says Microsoft will no longer allow Dell to sell PCs without an operating system. Please note that Microsoft is not a monopoly, and does not use their monopoly power to squish competition in the market place. The message itself is attached below, and is worth a read, especially the last bit.
UPDATES1. Effective 8/26 - New Microsoft contract rules stipulate that we can no longer offer the "NO OS" option to our customers beyond September 1st. As such all customers currently purchasing a "NO OS" option on either OptiPlex, Precison or Latitude for the express purpose of loading a non-MS OS will have the following options:
1. Purchase a Microsoft OS with each OptiPlex, Precision or Latitude system.
2. For OptiPlex and Precision - purchase one of the new "nSeries" products (offered for GX260, WS340 & WS530 - details in the attached FAQ) that are being created to address a different OS support requirement other than a current standard Microsoft OS.
We must have all "No OS" orders shipped out of the factory by September 1st. The "No OS" legend code and SKUs will be I-coded on 8/19 and D-coded on August 26th to ensure shipment of orders prior to September 1st. FYI - this effects all of our competitors as well.
Which is in violation of the consent decree. Microsoft is prohibited from entering into an licensing agreement where it can specify what software is loaded onto an OEM system.
Sorry, you're wrong. Dell isn't being forced to ship Windows. Read the contract.
It doesn't matter what Dell is being required to ship. The fact that Dell is being required to ship anything violates the consent decree.
This is really getting tiresome now. You're willfully misreading the DOJs petition. The DOJ wasn't saying anything about per-processor licensing fees. They were complaining about MS requiring the distribution of IE with Windows.
You stated that Microsoft had abided by the consent decree. I provided evidence that they had not. Unless you meant to say, "Well, the abided by that part of the consent decree, but not the other part," in which case you might have a point.
Whoopie. Boys talking tough. Big deal.
Except when the boys are telling their subordinates to go out and tell those OEMs who the boss is. Then it's not talking tough, it's contempt.
I'm not the one fighting for change: You are. As it stands, your side isn't getting anywhere. You're outflanked.
Perhaps. And since the side I'm fighting for is honesty, integrity and the truth, it's rather sad that you and Microsoft are on the other side.
Still, I haven't given up hope. Microsoft's legal troubles for their strong-arm tactics will go on for the forseeable future. Even once this current anti-trust penalty is assesed, Microsoft has done plenty of things to keep themselves in court for years. Basically, all of the activities that Microsoft has perpetrated since the end of the trial phase of the current anti-trust battle haven't even been addressed. Everyone has been waiting for this to end since there isn't much point in going after a company that's been dissected. If Microsoft makes it out of the penalty phase intact, look for another anti-trust trial within a year.
This is unbelievably stupid. I CAN special order a car WITHOUT a radio or transmission from Ford. People who build electric cars CAN go to Ford and say "I want this car, but I don't need these items." Ford WILL sell it to me. I can also go to the dealer and say: "I don't want this radio, take it out." The dealer will comply. Do you understand that part yet? Because its crucial to what comes next.
DELL is manufacturing the computer. DELL is offering NAKED PCs. DELL is making the computer. Dell has many models. One model is WITH software, one model is WITHOUT software. Just like Ford, who offers many models of cars, DELL offers many models of computers.
Are we ok on this fact yet? because its such a biggie that unless you grasp that, nothing else will make any sense.
You really haven't a clue about commercial product development if you cannot understand supplier agreements.
Oh, please I've written and sold more than 20 commercial software products on different platforms including Windows. I support myself through my talents and creativity. I develop, write, productize and sell my software. This is not about hating Microsoft. Its about the truth.
Now, I'll continue once you are able to grasp the fact that DELL is the manufacterer and DELL is providing product to the marketplace. When you've got that fundamental concept we can proceed.
I'm not expecting much.
It really doesn't take that long, and you get so much more for the same amount of money. I consider a computer to be the motherboard. Everything else is a peripheral. Once you have a good ATX box you can do a major upgrade by swapping in a new $99 motherboard.
Not from the dealer you cannot, and that was a simple example. How about your VCR? Want a different tuner? Maybe your furniture should come with the coil springs from your favorite manufacturer, or perhaps, that rake you just bought didn't come with the wooden handle from your favorite tree.
To use your phrase, "This is unbelievably stupid."
You want Microsoft to die, period. You hate them, you detest them, and you want Bill to be boiled in oil. Am I close enough, yet?
This situation has been explained to you, you just are looking for the thinnest excuse to slam Microsoft.
So, what part of that model is illegal, immoral, or unethical?
Would you want your competitor's OS next to yours? Actually, the real problem is support. Do you realize the millions spent on customer support by Microsoft where the question is not about a Microsoft product? Even an answer such as, "Call RedHat, you have Linux.", costs money. Dual boot machines usually have far more problems than single OS machines, and for a variety of reasons. Simply put: Microsoft doesn't want to pay for problems resulting from competitor software being loaded with Microsoft software. (OK, throw out the obvious joke, "That's because Microsoft products have enough problems of their own!" HA! Beat ya to it!)
What is the cost of OEM Windows XP?
Proof, please, or is this another anti-Microsoft lie?
Your assertion that Microsoft "interfered" is incorrect. Microsoft has no authority to command Dell to do anything. In order for your assertion to be correct, Dell would have to be a subordinate entity to Microsoft, and I know a few people at Dell who would call them fighting words.
1. Go to law school.
2. Read their contract.
3. Go back to law school.
4. Try again.
YOU are injecting yourself into THEIR contract. You blame Microsoft, but is it not Dell who will not sell you a naked PC? Who are YOU to demand that Dell sell you anything, much less a naked PC? If you do not like Dell's product buy something else. Hell, buy a Mac. hehe. Can you buy a naked Mac?
If I purchase a Cable or Satellite Box, I dont get to choose which software controls that box. If I buy a TV set, I dont have any control over the remote control that comes with it. Suppliers determine their packaging.
That is the best reasoning so far. If people do not want to buy from Dell because of their “no naked PC” policy, then maybe Dell's sales will drop and they will have to reverse their decision. Frankly, I think the agreement is a bit inconvenient and silly.
No, but they certainly could bundle the two poducts together. The market will not bear such silliness, but they could.
Where has Microsoft entered this? Right now, I can't even get you to admit that Dell manufactures computers. Until you are able to see that Dell manufactures computers and has many models available to its customers, then there is no point discussing this further.
Dell manufacters computers. And yes, I do know a bit about this stuff .. I used to work in a computer plant.. the company I worked for got their key caps from Singapore, their LEDs from Texas ... The company I worked for made their own mother boards in house. I'm not sure if Dell does that.
We haven't got to the software yet. Don't jump ahead. Just the box. Dell makes the hardware. Dell has hardware suppliers. Dell assembles the pieces, tests it and markets it.
Are you willing to admit that Dell manufactures computers yet? You see, that's crucial for the next step.
Do the voices keep you up at night? I mean, you are not even dealing in reality. NO one has ever said Dell doesn't produce computers, but you throw that nonsense out??
"Never debate an idiot. They will bring down to their level and beat you with experience."
Although you haven't explicity said so, I can now assume that you agree with the fundamental fact that Dell builds computers.
Now, do you agree that in the past Dell has sold computers with no software on them? (aka "naked PC").
Again, M$ hasn't been mentioned here -- just trying to get you to admit:
WindowsXP cannot be bootlegged, because it requires "registration/activation" by Microsoft or it goes dead in 30 days. So your rationale is baseless in reality.
If this email is valid, then MS forcing Dell to ship PC's with an operating system is the equivalent of forcing Dell to not ship Linux (since most Linux users have their own copy).
The one thing that you do not understand is OEM contracting. If the price of Microsoft Windows XP is $350 retail, and Dell wants a cheaper OEM price model, then Microsoft can offer them $25 per license, but with conditions.
My business is a OEM, and we buy a lot of equipment under OEM contracting. Our purchase contracts are based upon quantity. 1-100 pieces costs $X, 101-999 costs $Y, etc... The more you buy, the better the price. This is standard business. But, penalizing Dell's pricing if they sell other OS's (or no OS's)? This is not normal in any industry that I've ever been in. This is a symptom of the supplier having too much power over the buyer. In a non-monopolist environment, the purchaser drives the terms of an OEM contract. BTW, I don't care what their contract terms are... This won't fly with the DOJ if/when this sees the light of day.
One other point... If this email is verified to be true, then Dell has no cajones.
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