Former NTSB Board Member Wants TWA800Investigation Re-opened By: John Fiorentino

8/7/02 | John Fiorentino

[JohnFiorentino]

A former NTSB Board member, Dr. Vernon L. Grose has petitioned the NTSB and Congress to reconsider the TWA Flight800 investigation.

In his letter to current NTSB Chair Marion Blakey, Grose urges NTSB to reconsider it's position. He states he has no desire to undermine much of the fine work done by the NTSB.

In writing to the Honorable Paul E. Kanjorski of the US House of Representatives, Dr. Grose is a little more pointed, stating; "I am available to you as a resource in obtaining whatever support you require to seek the truth that, in my opinion, has been subverted."

The complete text of Dr. Grose's letters can be viewed here.

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[justshutupandtakeit]

That is a load of bullshiite. While there are certainly improvements which can be made your analysis of the program is incorrect. Since we have seen the effects of allowing moslemaniacs to commandeer planes we cannot allow it to happen again.

We also know that these were not isolated events but part of a plan devised a decade ago.

I suppose you would stop baggage checks and just hope for the best.

[E. Pluribus Unum]

I suppose you would stop baggage checks and just hope for the best.

I would enforce the Second Amendment. Ever hear of it?

[E. Pluribus Unum]

While there are certainly improvements which can be made your analysis of the program is incorrect. Since we have seen the effects of allowing moslemaniacs to commandeer planes we cannot allow it to happen again.

911 did not happen because there weren't enough high school dropouts rooting throug airline passengers' underwear. It happened because the effeminate, homosexual Muslim hijackers were able to gain access to the aircraft cockpits.

All that was necessary was to replace the cardboard cockpit doors with doors that could actually be used to keep people out.

Instead, we now we have 50,000 high school dropout federal employees rooting through airline passengers' underwear, and we still don't have secure cockpit doors, thanks to self-serving federal employee jackasses like you.

[justshutupandtakeit]

Not only are you a fool but a determinedly ignorant fool. Get a few facts (rather than asinine OPINIONS.) Or move to a subject of which you might have some real knowledge. That could be a problem I am well aware.

[E. Pluribus Unum]

Not only are you a fool but a determinedly ignorant fool. Get a few facts (rather than asinine OPINIONS.) Or move to a subject of which you might have some real knowledge. That could be a problem I am well aware.

Point out one fact that you have expressed in this context. The FACT is that airline cockpits are still unprotected by a real door. Prove otherwise, loudmouth, or do what your stupid screen name says.

[justshutupandtakeit]

There has not been 50,000 high school dropouts hired as screeners. To state such an obvious lie undermines any correct statements you might veer into accidentally.

[E. Pluribus Unum]

There has not been 50,000 high school dropouts hired as screeners. To state such an obvious lie undermines any correct statements you might veer into accidentally.

You are the one who is full of bullshite, as you said. Airport screeners are a make-work job for people who can't get real job. All the people who used to be on welfare before it was reformed now work in airport security.

You are a government employee, aren't you?

[E. Pluribus Unum]

What's more important to airline safety? 50,000 federal employees rooting through the underwear of airline passengers, or real security doors on cockpits that prevent hijackers from gaining entry to the cockpit?

It's a simple question. If you don't respond with a simple answer it is because YOU are the liar.

[justshutupandtakeit]

You say I am full of shiite and you are the one making wild, false claims about the screeners? And false claims about my support of or advocacy of hiring them. Does one size fit all when it comes to your false claims?

[E. Pluribus Unum]

Gotcha. You didn't answer the question.

I would be willing to bet $10,000 that you are a government employee or contractor. I guess your conscience must be bothering you. <p. As the Bard once said, "Methinks the lady doth protest too much."

[justshutupandtakeit]

My profession is irrelevent to my opinions and to the point that you are lying about the background of the screeners. There is no "gotcha" involved.

Your statement that the screeners are dropouts and/or ex-welfare recipients is a gross lie without a shred of truth to it. While they are not PhDs they are not a bunch of uneducated boobs and your comments are insulting to them and to those on this forum who are not highly educated.

You could opine all you want about the necessity for such a program, the effectiveness of the program or its employees' lack of qualifications but an outright, obvious lie will not go unchallenged. And trying to change the subject from the outright lie won't work either.

[E. Pluribus Unum]

You could opine all you want about the necessity for such a program, the effectiveness of the program or its employees' lack of qualifications but an outright, obvious lie will not go unchallenged. And trying to change the subject from the outright lie won't work either.

In other words, you are afraid to answer the following question, because it proves that the 50,000 airport screeners are a waste of TAXPAYER and AIRLINE PASSENGER money.

What's more important to airline safety? 50,000 federal employees rooting through the underwear of airline passengers, or real security doors on cockpits that prevent hijackers from gaining entry to the cockpit?

[justshutupandtakeit]

That question is a straw man that is not the issue. No one would claim going thru old ladies drawers is a substitute for proper doors. Though you are trying to obscure the fact the hijackers got into the cockpits by killing passengers, crew etc. And the doors were opened for them just as they might have been had the doors been as secure as bank vault doors.

I note that this is a change of topic from the outrageous and false one about screener's being unemployable morons.
In fact, I would wage that very few IF ANY of the screeners hired were unemployed at the time of hire.

What would cockpit doors have done to prevent the shoe bomber? You think there should be no passenger security or prohibited articles?

[E. Pluribus Unum]

What would cockpit doors have done to prevent the shoe bomber?

What did minimum-wage airport screeners do to prevent the shoe bomber.

And the fact that you are a government employee/contractor is highly relevan to this discussion because it's your livelihood and you don't care how worthless it is as long as you get paid.

[justshutupandtakeit]

The shoe man boarded in Europe. The new screeners are not minimum wage how did you get that idea? How many federal employees are minimum wage or high school dropouts?

My livelihood is not related to any kind of security provided by government nor does it affect my opinion of that or any other government actions. If I conclude them wrong, I don't hesitate to speak my mind. If you believe that my integrity is that easily compromisable do yourself a favor and forget about talking to me. I know I have no interest in speaking with dishonest or dishonorable people who do not argue in good faith.

Do you have the same disdain and contempt for those you believe serving in the military?

[timestax]

bump to the top FYI

[E. Pluribus Unum]

The new screeners are not minimum wage how did you get that idea? How many federal employees are minimum wage or high school dropouts?

Of course they are not EARNING minimum wage, even though that's what they deserve. The entire program was a bone thrown to the federal government employees unions. It has nothing to do with actually protecting anyone, and everything to do with politics.

I know I have no interest in speaking with dishonest or dishonorable people who do not argue in good faith.

You must find it difficult to live with yourself.

[justshutupandtakeit]

Federal unions had nothing to do with this program but that won't stop you from lying about it. In fact, you have lied about every element of it. Do you tell the truth about anything?

Since I don't lie I live with myself just fine. Can't you do any better than "I know I am but what about you?"

[E. Pluribus Unum]

They are already trying to unionize the TSA. It is just a matter of time. All federal bureaucracies are cancers that eventually metastasize, and this one was born metastisizing.

I'll bet you have never met a government boondoggle that you did not like.

[E. Pluribus Unum]

TSA employees are not even required to have a high school diploma.

Must be a real demanding job.