Former NTSB Board Member Wants TWA800Investigation Re-opened By: John Fiorentino

8/7/02 | John Fiorentino

[JohnFiorentino]

A former NTSB Board member, Dr. Vernon L. Grose has petitioned the NTSB and Congress to reconsider the TWA Flight800 investigation.

In his letter to current NTSB Chair Marion Blakey, Grose urges NTSB to reconsider it's position. He states he has no desire to undermine much of the fine work done by the NTSB.

In writing to the Honorable Paul E. Kanjorski of the US House of Representatives, Dr. Grose is a little more pointed, stating; "I am available to you as a resource in obtaining whatever support you require to seek the truth that, in my opinion, has been subverted."

The complete text of Dr. Grose's letters can be viewed here.

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http://twa800.com/letters/grose-8-2-02a.jpg

[justshutupandtakeit]

Before you go praising people it would be best if you were to check what they actually said rather than start bloviating without foundation. Idiotic statements about "disruptors" only make your ability to communicate suspect.

As far as trying to match EPU with dubious quotes goes, I never link and rarely quote. Thus, you can argue with me and not some quote which may or may not be accurate.

BTW "contractors" are not the equivalent of "employees" except to those who are unconcerned with accuracy such as you.

Calling anyone who disagrees with you a "leftist" amply illustrates your ignorance of what a Leftist is. But keep it up there may be someone here who still believes you have something worthwhile to say. Such comments should cause that belief to be discarded.

I guess EPU got caught with some prohibited article at an airport and you did as well? Next time leave the bazooka at home.

MizRiz
Don't let these boozos discourage you from posting they are part of the "more patriotic than thou" group which comes out from under their beds on occasion to shrilly attack those who live in the real world and condemn the attempts made to protect us. Generally, they use lies, exaggerations, hyperbole, distortions and misquotes but they rarely work on anyone with an IQ higher than room temperature. Another characteristic is an unfailing belief in a turd party (Patty's, or Harry's or some other misfit's)and hatred of the GOP.

[justshutupandtakeit]

More falsehoods about what I have said.

I never said anything about the wages that should be paid screeners. YOU are the one knocking their educational backgrounds and claiming they were paid minimum wage. I merely said I doubt many were at minimum wage. Your "book" is irrelevent since many jobs start at more than minimum wage with no training. That depends upon the job market conditions.

Diplomas, GEDs why quibble, right? Or is it ok for you to quibble but not your opponents? However, I don't believe your source anyway. The Times probably just grabbed a number out of thin air just as they do any time there is a chance of slandering Bush.

What does make-work have to do with INS speedups of naturalization procedures? Is this the kind of logic Paul Ross likes and understands?

[justshutupandtakeit]

Just to be accurate my M.A. is from the University of Illinois though I could have had one from Wayne had I wished to take it.

These facts are irrelevent to the argument since I was not the one who was making wild claims about 50,000 dropouts or 150,000 dropouts or 1,500,000 dropouts. (Why quibble about the accuracy of the poster after all you were merely seeking validation of your previously held beliefs anyway.)

It is doubtful if any of the supposed "facts" ePU quoted is any more accurate than his opinion that the doors made a difference in what happened 9/11. As for his "logic." LOL not even close.

[E. Pluribus Unum]

However, I don't believe your source anyway. The Times probably just grabbed a number out of thin air just as they do any time there is a chance of slandering Bush.

Commie rag or not, the NYT is a reputable source. If you choose to discount it, then find a source of your own that proves what you say. Failure to do so will be taken as further evidence that you are just a loud-mouthed blowhard.

I will repeat:

The 911 attacks did not occur because Americans have too much freedom and too few airport screeners.

They occurred because terrorists were able to gain access to the cockpits of hijacked aircraft.

Instead of retrofitting all commercial aircraft with doors which could actually be used to keep terrorists out of cockpits, Washington created an Orwellian monster named the Transportation Security Administration (TSA) and hired tens of thousands of minimum-wage Gestapo to root through the underwear of airline passengers.

Simply setting foot in an airport is now considered to be a terrorist act.

The fact that the TSA created a national airport police force without ever addressing the cockpit door scandal is damning evidence that their mandate has nothing to do with protecting anyone.

Their true purpose is to turn America into a police state.

And airports are their incubators.

The statists want to condition us to accept the idea that probable cause is dead and they can search our houses, our hard drives and our persons and demand to see our papers at any time.

Airport screeners are the Brown Shirts of our day.

They are the enemy.

[justshutupandtakeit]

I have no interest in finding a source to counter the NYTs. Believe it if you want but don't expect me to.

You have no information that the cockpit doors were not opened by the pilots or that stronger doors would have mattered. From the information that is available it appears the hijackers gained access by killing passengers until the pilots opened the doors. Since previous hijackers merely wanted the planes to go to Cuba or some other place there was no belief that they would use the planes as weapons. Thus, the result would have likely been the same had the doors been as secure as bank vaults. In other words, you are proposing a false dichotomy.

Tell it to the terrorist in L.A. who killed two people in the airport. However, to the thinking portion of the population there is no doubt that some type of screening is now necessary to prevent further attacks.

With no screening even your beloved doors could not stop a nutcase from getting on the plane with a bomb or a exploding shoe. You are proposing no screening? It is obvious to those without an anti-State agenda that the terrorists on 9/11 would not have been stopped by stronger doors if the pilots would have just opened them believing that would stop passengers from being killed. Now is a different matter.

However, I support the Israeli method of airport security which uses screeners and air marshalls. Many of those you are libelling who work for TSA are air marshalls not screeners.

Apparently you are unaware of what the Brown Shirts were if you believe the TSA employees are their equivalents. It is just silly rhetoric which convinces no one.

[E. Pluribus Unum]

I have no interest in finding a source to counter the NYTs. Believe it if you want but don't expect me to.

Go away and leave the grownups alone.

[Paul Ross]

Idiotic statements about "disruptors" only make your ability to communicate suspect.

And your personal attacks are not disruptive and dissuasive of your communications skills? Chill out.

As far as trying to match EPU with dubious quotes goes, I never link and rarely quote. Thus, you can argue with me and not some quote which may or may not be accurate.

From the horse's mouth. So there you are, as an anonymous person, attempting to assert PERSONAL credibility and authority?! ;-)

BTW "contractors" are not the equivalent of "employees" except to those who are unconcerned with accuracy such as you.

Oh my, accuracy requires sub-classifications of these numbers now? I suppose you know them?

Calling anyone who disagrees with you a "leftist" amply illustrates your ignorance of what a Leftist is...

Speaking of accuracy...I never did called you a leftist. Please review the thread. I noted that you were echoing a leftist-apologist line...pro-statist. That may or may not be indicative of your general philosophy, as a member of the Federalist Society, I would have hoped for a more reserved attitude about a ballooning federal payroll. But it was certainly not a persuasive 'line' of argument because of its nature.

[Elenya]

Another TWA 800 revisited report. I'm really tired of these reports, considering nothing ever happens. Call me pessimistic, but I don't believe anything will ever come out of it. I did dream for a while though.

Some day pigs will fly. Yeah...

[justshutupandtakeit]

I never attacked ePU before he started in on me. I merely refuted his falsehoods. That was enough to set him off.

Too many false quotes have been thrown at me here for me to give much credence to them. If you disagree with my OPINION or the facts I state fine. I don't base my statements on someone else's authority.

I know that ePU was combining the two catagories to get the 65,000 number.

Since when is questioning dubious statistics "echoing a pro-left line?" I never expressed an opinion on the effectiveness of the TSA operations merely on the false and hyperbolic statements of ePU. There are many things I would do differently particularly profiling of passengers but believe it extremely foolish to think that NOW we can stop all screening. We ARE at war now. Believe it or not. THAT is not a plot to increase the size of the State.

[justshutupandtakeit]

What am I supposed to make of your #106? You are NOT calling me a leftist there?

[justshutupandtakeit]

Another example of your insightful arguments and devastating "logic" I see.

[Paul Ross]

The plural was confusing, and the sentance may been imprecise. But I was alluding more to the DisInfo ops guys, and also, as to leftists, MizRiz, who chimed in on your position, which nakedly on its terms, appeared not to be a classical Federalist Society position.

[justshutupandtakeit]

My positions are my own and are not cleared or coordinated with the Politiburo, the Federalist Society or any of my alma maters. All mistakes are to be blamed on me not any institution I may have had a relationship to at one time or the other. One might call me a iconoclast, free thinker, loose cannon etc.

One thread I am attacked as a statist, commie, leftist another as a libertarian or even a Nazi.

I am a consistent opponent of wild exaggeration and dubious "facts."

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[JohnFiorentino]

"Diploma" is just a "gingoism" today..........The requirement is a joke, as is the notion that because someone has one he is in fact educated.

Conversely, the assumption that because someone doesn't have one he isn't educated, is equally ludicrous.

If I ever got anything out of Psych 1 it was the "Fundamental Attribution Error.".....Most people don't discuss this, because the finger points back at themselves.

[justshutupandtakeit]

I never assume one is knowledgeable no matter how educated s/he is. However, when cranks start dispensing self taught "knowledge" barely rational I will take a pass. Not saying that about anything we have discussed.

I pretty much assume very few people know very much about anything. Degrees or no.

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