In-House Wars: For at least one, the goal was to drive people away.

Admin Moderator | 8-2-02 | Admin Moderator

[justshe]

(Regarding the answer to stopping the 'in-house wars')

The answer is for everyone to just stop doing it.

I know that is hard for some, because things have gotten to the point where now things are personal. There are wounds in some cases, and in others there is anger. Makes it really hard for people to stand down. Unfortunately, I am pretty sure it has been planned this way.

Earlier tonight thanks to a tip from someone who I wish I had listened to earlier, we discovered someone who had at least 8 different accounts. One bashed Horowitz, Swaggert, and Art Bell. Another bashed Keyes. Another posted as a rabid Keyester. Another posted as a Klayman basher. Several seemed to have a thing for mocking Registered.

What was the guy's game? Here is a graphic and caption off of the profile of one of them:

I'm very sorry, but I just couldn't stand all the fighting any longer!

Yes, he wanted to get people fighting to where they would walk away.

One of this guy's incarnations posted a piece or two from anarchist website strike-the-root, which to me hints to what his ideology is. It would also explain why he had a knack for going after the DC chapter folks. I recall nrkybill (anarchy Bill) had some issues with you all. They are not the same people, I don't think, but if their ideology is the same and their main targets are the same, then it is possible that there is some connection.

Obviously, the goal is to drive people away. This is not happening on just one side, it is happening on all sides. It is a form of disruption that relies on the cover of good people engaging in flame wars with them so that the disruptors seem part of the mass rather than the agent provocatuers that they are.

There are two options, really. People can help us out in finding them by refusing to take part in the flame wars and being understanding when a person gets sent to the cooler, so that eventually the real problem children are rooted out.

And the other option is to let them win by letting them drive you away- with you being people from every single conservative faction we have. Rest assured though, if that one happens, if you make another home and it starts being successful, they will come there and do it to you there.

I've asked this before. I'll ask it again. (And this is not aimed at you, ... but at the forum). Please stop it with the personal attacks. One can have a rip-roaring take-it-to-the-mat political debate with someone without getting personal, without resorting to childish taunts, and still not have it be bland.

And the best thing that one can do otherwise is to use a little self-enforcement. A Bushie telling a Bushie to knock off the insults is going to probably work better than a Keyester telling a Bushie to knock off the insults, and vice versa.

My flame suits are back on, so everyone have at it again. But please at least think about it. Thanks, AM

[justshe]

This comment, by the admin moderator, was buried deep within a thread on Sean Hannity and addressed the bitter and often 'dirty' in-fighting that seems to be occurring on this forum on a regular basis. The Moderator gave permission to have it posted as a separate thread for further discussion as warranted.

As I am unfamiliar with posting threads, should any of the "topics" chosen be inappropriate, my apologies.

[gitmo]

Can someone point us to a thread that exemplifies this? I'm not sure I know what you're talking about. I've seen a lot of disagreements, but isn't that part of the political debate?

[Peach]

If you haven't seen it, you're lucky. It's everywhere these days and the best thing to do is to ignore the insults.

[absalom01]

Good post. I'm sure that there are many like myself who have a limited amount of time to scan the various threads here, but it did seem to me that there was an increasing loss of civility in the recent past. What i've noticed is that a few folks are resorting to the most adolescent name-calling: "nitwit" being a favorite invective.

"One can have a rip-roaring take-it-to-the-mat political debate with someone without getting personal, without resorting to childish taunts," ...

This gets it about half of the way there -- I'd argue that one can ONLY have a real political debate if the silly ad-hominem attacks are left out.

But, look at the bright side -- FR must really be bugging the opposition for this level of effort to be applied.

[mrsmith]

Liberals consistently hide themselves as "real" conservatives or libertarians on FR to provide themselves cover, sometimes their bogus criticisms are then defended by eager anti-gov Freepers who are trying to make valid criticisms of the president.
It's too bad, but it is sometimes hard to identify these people until things have advanced to the hurt feelings level.
(Hi to "MIT" and to another 'consistent' liberal who is still here so I won't mention the name)

The pure trolls will hide themselves on any side- including, of course, 'pro-Bush'- to cause trouble... any trouble. They get found out pretty quickly though.

[lewislynn]

The Moderator gave permission to have it posted as a separate thread for further discussion as warranted.

Why? It will only start another "in-house war"

[AmishDude]

I really don't know what good this can do, though. The disruptors, if malicious, won't stop based on any entreaty and most of them are gone within two weeks, so they won't see this anyway. I don't know what the solution is and I don't know how/whether JimRob wants to resolve it.

There are several ways I can think of offhand, but any would change the nature of FR:

• Have ranks of membership, e.g.: probationary, junior, senior, that appears either with each article post or with each reply. For example with a colored dot next to the name.
• Post member date along with each article posted.
• Provide a probationary period for each member. (There are sleeper accounts, of course.)
• Make a statistical graph (say posting rate/week or rate/month) available for each member.

Some of these would be impossible to do, some undesirable.

I think the biggest problem is that certain factions are unwilling to police their own. Right now, the Bush-bashers, of course, have the highest percentage of distruptors. But, the genuine posters in this group seem so happy to have the support that they are unwilling to out disruptors in their midst.

On the positive side, these things happen in waves. Not too many months ago, one could not help but see antiwar.com or lewrockwell.com articles everytime one was browsing. Now they're impossible to find. Those of us who have been around a while, I think, don't mind it so much because we've seen it before.

[Dog]

It is everywhere...

Can get real mean and nasty out there...

[Dog]

Maybe it won't...

[justshe]

Gitmo: This topic was addressed on an 800+ thread re: a comment Hannity made on-air yesterday re: Conservatives attacking Conservatives.

Here

Posting this thread is simply an extension--and possibly a 'refinement' of that topic. Many had opinions that the libertarians attack the conservatives who attack the bushbashers who attack the bushbots who etc.etc.....

The key word being 'attack'. Many on that thread expressed their disdain for the personal slurs, name-calling, invective hurling, etc. that takes the discussion away from the ISSUES and takes it into an intellectual (or pseudo-intellectual) verbal, 'to-the-death', boxing ring.

The Admin Moderator weighed in with the information found in the 'article' posted above.

[justshe]

Perhaps to indicate that not ALL is at it seems. That there is an agenda for some who post here.

[IronJack]

As the Admin Moderator is well aware, I am not a proponent of a moderated forum. But in this post, he is exactly right. We can rely on the sensibilities of others to groom our forum or we can do it ourselves.

Be aware that many of these disruptions come from disgruntled former FReepers who childishly return to the forum after a suspension to ruin the atmosphere for everyone. It's like a brat kicked off the playground who sneaks back in the middle of the night to vandalize the jungle gym.

There are numerous other sites on the net started by grudge-holders and tantrum-throwers, and they troll FR regularly to recruit malcontents. Not content to differ in their view, they obsess about bringing FR down or contaminating it with their vitriolic spew to the point that it's rendered useless.

Be aware that many of the flame wars and sniping sessions you see are their handiwork. Then lay back and watch the show, just as you'd watch with morbid curiosity if a loudmouthed brat threw a tantrum in the grocery store.

Then walk away shaking your head and thanking God you've got better manners.

[gitmo]

I read the Hannity post last night. I've seen some unseemly posts particularly when the topic of Israel & Palestinians comes up. But I'm not sure I've picked up on the whole issue of attacks.

[rintense]

PING!

[pittsburgh gop guy]

If good conservatives leave FREEREPUBLIC then the terrorists have won!

[freesia2]

I really don't know what good this can do, though.

I think it helps to know there are people out there intentionally trying to torpedo us. Might cause one to stop and think before being pulled into an agrument.

[McB.]

If the problem (in-house-wars) has gotten to the point of mention from Sean Hannity, then it's obviously an administration problem. Hannity would not waste time commenting on individual posters to a conservative site. I've always believed the clique controlling FR, while doing a good job, is indeed just another clique.

I use to moderate a Christian living site and tried my best to be fair, yet I have to admit that I eventually had my favorites and identified those who I thought were trouble makers. I tried not to interfere, but when problems were brought to my attention I found myself always siding with those who eventually became part of a quasi-clique.

Almost unavoidable but most always true, cliques bring with them their own brand of trouble.

[Consort]

How many of the in-house bashers are "posturing" so that they can say "I told you so" if the GOP loses both Houses in '02 and the White House in '04?

[justshe]

***We can rely on the sensibilities of others to groom our forum or we can do it ourselves.***

And that, I think, is the point. That, and having our antenna up for those who might be here just for the purpose of disruption.

[Grampa Dave]

Rin thanks for the ping.

Phi Kap fyi.