Couric Got It Wrong Again In Debating Coulter (Coulter 3, Couric 1)

Human Events ^ | 7/26/02

[Jean S]

On June 26, Human Events Legal Affairs Correspondent Ann Coulter appeared on NBC’s "Today" show with Katie Couric to discuss her book Slander: Liberal Lies About the American Right. The appearance quickly turned into a debate rather than an interview.

The question to be resolved, as raised by Couric, was whether Coulter had inaccurately accused the "Today" show of distorting the words of Ronald Reagan’s biographer Edmund Morris, so that the "Today" show could tar Reagan as an "airhead."

Couric claimed Coulter had wrongfully implied the "Today" show itself had called Reagan an airhead, when in fact, according to Couric, she had only quoted what Morris had written in his book, Dutch. Couric also claimed Coulter had inaccurately claimed the "Today" show had referred to Reagan as an airhead on successive days rather than just once. On this, Couric also erred.

Then Couric claimed she could prove Coulter wrong by producing transcripts. This was her biggest error.

Liberal Mickey Kaus of slate.msn.com did his own review of the transcripts. His verdict: "Coulter 1, Couric 0." "The account in Coulter’s book," he wrote, ". . . appears to be completely accurate."

We have collected the relevant passages here, so you can make your own judgment—and enjoy. By the way, after she bested Couric, Ann saw her Slander rocket to No. 1 on the New York Times and other bestseller lists.

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From Ann Coulter's Bestseller, Slander:

"Years later, the media was still muttering about what a dope Reagan was. On Sept. 27, 1999, NBC’s host Katie Couric opened the ‘Today’ show by chipperly announcing, ‘The Gipper was an airhead. That’s one of the conclusions of a new biography of Ronald Reagan that’s drawing a tremendous amount of interest and fire today.’ She was referring to the recently released Edmund Morris book, Dutch: A Memoir of Ronald Reagan.

"The next day, Matt Lauer opened the ‘Today’ show saying, ‘Good morning. For the first time, President Bush is responding to the controversial new biography of Ronald Reagan and, in particular, the author’s assertion that Reagan was a great President but an airhead.’ After quoting President Bush attacking the ‘airhead’ characterization as ‘grossly unfair and untrue,’ Lauer observed that another thing the author seems to say ‘is that the Reagans were not all that crazy about the Bushes.’

"When Morris finally came on the ‘Today’ show to respond, he denounced the claim that his book called Reagan an airhead as ‘brutal and grossly unfair. I did not call him an airhead.’ Explaining that he had simply written that on a first meeting, Reagan seemed ‘an apparent airhead,’ Morris observed that the ‘whole course’ of his book ‘makes quite obvious that that first impression was wrong.’ To Couric’s follow-up question, ‘So you do not believe today that Ronald Reagan was an airhead?’ Morris said, ‘Oh, good God, no. He was a very bright man.’"

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From Ann Coulter's appearance on NBC's Today Show, June 26, 2002:

NBC’s Katie Couric: ". . . . But you talk about the media bias against Ronald Reagan, and you use a quote, an open, from the ‘Today’ show where we say an airhead, Ronald Reagan is an airhead, and we’re quoting Edmund Morris, but frankly, in the book, you make it sound as if I was saying that rather than Edmund Morris. And I guess one of your problems is with—even using that—is that he said he was an ‘apparent airhead’ and we failed to say ‘apparent airhead.’

"And during the course of the interview with Edmund Morris, I really conducted an extremely challenging interview with him because he did eviscerate Ronald Reagan in his book. It was a very, very unflattering portrayal. The Reagans were very unhappy with it. Conservatives were very unhappy with it. Afterwards, Edmund—Edmund Morris—was unhappy with the interview, and Nancy Reagan called to thank me for my line of questioning. So I’m just wondering how that jibes with your contention that, somehow, I’m a Ronald Reagan basher?"

Ann Coulter: "Well, I didn’t call you a Ronald Reagan basher. I said—which is true—that the ‘Today’ show—"

Couric: "Well, you used me as an example of liberal bias against Ronald Reagan, and I’m just curious why you took it so out of context."

Coulter: "Well, I don’t think I did. You’re taking it out of context."

Couric: "No I’m not."

Coulter: "What I said, which is true, is that the ‘Today’ show opened, I believe it was three days in a row, with the announcement Ronald Reagan was an airhead. That’s the conclusion of this new book by Edmund Morris. When Edmund Morris came on for that interview with you, he described that as a grossly unfair characterization of his points. And—"

Couric: "Well, we should also point out, though—"

Coulter: ". . . his entire book was contradicting that. So when the author himself and George Bush, the Vice President, was interviewed about this, all say that that was a grossly unfair characterization."

Couric: "Right and—and that’s in—"

Coulter: "Well, then whose characterization was it?"

Couric: "That’s in—"

Coulter: "It wasn’t Edmund Morris. He certainly denies it."

Couric: "Well, actually, he backpedaled considerably. If you had read the book by Edmund Morris—"

Coulter: "I did."

Couric: "—you would have seen that he was extremely critical of Ronald Reagan in the book."

Coulter: "No, I didn’t like the book, but he didn’t call him an airhead. The ‘Today’ show called him an airhead."

Couric: "He called him an ‘apparent airhead.’ He did call him an ‘apparent airhead.’ I have the quote right here if you’d like me to read it. . . ."

Coulter: "And what was also in his words, though, when he came on your show, was that was a grossly unfair characterization and that that was at the beginning of the book. He said he described him as an ‘apparent airhead’ on a very first meeting and that—and that the entire course of the rest of his book was contradicting that. So for the ‘Today’ show to be opening three days in a row, Ronald Reagan was an airhead, I’m sorry, that’s dishonest."

Couric: "It was one day. And also, just for your information it was one day."

Coulter: "No, you said it one day. Matt Lauer said it another day."

Couric: "No, it was just one day, and we’ll get the transcripts for you"

—‘Today’ Show
June 26, 2002

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From Transcript of ‘Today’ Show, Sept. 27, 1999:

Couric: "Good morning. The Gipper was an airhead. That’s one of the conclusions of a new biography of Ronald Reagan that’s drawing a tremendous amount of interest and fire today . . . [W]e’re going to see why Morris thinks Reagan was an airhead, but still a great President."

From Transcript of ‘Today’ Show, Sept. 28, 1999:

NBC’s Matt Lauer: "Good morning. For the first time, President Bush is responding to the controversial new biography of Ronald Reagan and, in particular, the author’s assertion that Reagan was a great President but an airhead. . . ."

Later, from transcript of same show:

NBC Correspondent Jamie Gangel: "Morris is also quoted as saying that Ronald Reagan was an airhead."

Former President George Bush: "Well, that is brutal and grossly unfair and untrue."

From Transcript of ‘Today’ Show, Sept. 29, 1999

Couric: "There has been a lot of outrage expressed by President Reagan’s friends and associates about your use of the word airhead—"

Edmund Morris: "Yes."

Couric: "—to describe him. George Bush says it’s brutal, grossly unfair, untrue. Ed Meese, former attorney general, said it’s not fair, not true. Marlin Fitzwater, former press secretary, says it’s totally inappropriate to describe the former President that way."

Morris: "I agree with every single one of those. It’s brutal and grossly unfair. I did not call him an airhead. The quote as published first in the Washington Post dropped the word apparent before head. What I said in the book, what appears plainly on the pages, I found him at first an ‘apparent airhead.’ And the whole course of the book makes quite obvious that that first impression was wrong."

So, in fact, it’s more like Coulter 3, Couric 1. More material for Ann’s next book.

[housethatruthbuilt]

don't know how to post pics, but doesn't couric look like the joker from batman? probably not the first to say this here though.

[#3Fan]

Katie Couric is a bit too much of a liberal airhead to be challenging tested-by-fire political pundits like Ann Coulter.

[TenthAmendmentChampion]

Ann Coulter rules!

[kidd]

Thank you so much for posting this. I was hoping someone would research this.

[Right Wing Professor]

doesn't couric look like the joker from batman?

I think you're being a little hard on Cesar Romero there. He was once a handsome looking man. Still, comparing this...

...with this...

..it's hard to deny some similarity. Twins, maybe?

[stlrocket]

Perky Katie Couric has a special message just for you. BTW - Anne Rules!

Katie thinks you're No 1

Anne lookin great!

[INSENSITIVE GUY]

Everytime i look at Couric i think of a NASTY LITTLE ELF and a "butt cam"!

[Dick Vomer]

You never see them together at the same time...hmmmmmmmm!!

I think they're the same person and NOT twins.

[Iowa Granny]

Ann is a Pro. She does very thorough research. When I die I want to return as an Ann Coulter clone.

[WFTR]

Once again, we see that liberals love to lie about conservatives but hate it when conservatives tell the truth about them.

WFTR
Bill

[Joe Boucher]

Let's be honest. Is there anyone out there that would rather see a debate between two political bozos anywhere or say between ms. couric and Miss Coulter? You go country girl, kick butt.

[RonDog]

You can watch a rerun of Ann and Katie online at http://msnbc.com/news/763069.asp:

Ann Coulter on liberal bias in the media
June 26, 2002 — “Today” host Katie Couric talks with conservative author Ann Coulter about her book, “Slander,” that talks about liberal bias in the media

[RonDog]

To fulfill the Free Republic tradtion of posting images of Ann on all Ann Coulter threads, from http://www.anncoulter.org/images.html:

[RonDog]

don't know how to post pics, but doesn't couric look like the joker from batman?

Katie ALSO looks a lot like Eva Braun, from:

Couric Slanders Coulter as 'Right-Wing Tele-bimbo'
NewsMax.com | June 26, 2002 | Carl Limbacher
Posted on 06/26/2002 9:39 AM Pacific by Carl/NewsMax

...Nevertheless, Coulter may have a point, just based on the appearances of Couric and Eva Braun alone:

103 posted on 6/26/02 11:07 AM Pacific by archy

Coulter calls her "the affable Eva Braun of morning TV"

[The Great Satan]

That was a weird hair-and-makeup job Ann had for the catfight with Eva. Makes her look like some sort of dominatrix. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

[rightofrush]

Eva's prettier.

[RonDog]

Makes her look like some sort of dominatrix. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

LOL! From http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,58311,00.html:

Ann Coulter and Katie Couric.

[RonDog]

rightofrush

From the Great One's website, at http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_062602/content/tape.guest.html:

he Fourth of July is next week, but you'd think it was happening right now if you watched The Today Show on Wednesday morning. The fireworks were flying all over the studio during an interview between Katie Couric and Ann Coulter regarding her new book Slander: Liberal Lies About the American Right.

		What made the interview so riveting was the fact that Couric basically exemplified everything Coulter writes about in her book. It was a classic example, being played right off the pages. Of course, Couric attempted to downplay and flat out deny an example of her own bias concerning Ronald Reagan - an episode Coulter covers in the book.

		We say "attempted" because the Media Research Center did some digging after the interview to find out the real deal behind the accuracies and inaccuracies of their argument, and lo and behold, it looks like Couric is down for the count. She did try revive herself by going for the jugular and getting personal, enquiring about such things as Coulter being dropped as columnist from National Review Online. However, I only think it served to prove the book's point more. The Today Show wasn't the only hot seat Coulter sat in Wednesday morning. She also appeared on MSNBC, and again, the whole line of questioning by the host was just so typical of the erroneous criticism of the right. Even my name was brought up in the interview. You can hear excerpts from the programs in the links below, along with the final score provided by the Media Research Center, and my own recollections of an experience I had with Ms. Couric during an interview.

		(…play Coulter on MSNBC and round one of Coulter v. Couric) (…play round two of Coulter v. Couric) (…deliver the Media Research Center's KO punch to Couric) (...recount his own Katie Couric interview experience)

[The Great Satan]

Oh dear. This does conjure up a few evil thoughts. Dungeons, wrist straps, non-stop Rush Limbaugh, here Katie, nice Katie...