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Interfaith Is No Faith
The Wall Street Journal ^ | July 19, 2002 | Mollie Ziegler

Posted on 07/19/2002 1:59:31 PM PDT by Charles Henrickson

Edited on 04/23/2004 12:04:39 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

You would think that the more militant forms of Islam would be enough to worry about these days, for those inclined to anguish over religious extremism. But no. Apparently the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod deserves our special concern. In late June, the church suspended the Rev. David Benke, the president of its Atlantic District and the pastor of a Brooklyn church, for praying with clerics who don't share the Christian faith.


(Excerpt) Read more at opinionjournal.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: interfaithservices; lcms; lutheranchurch; missourisynod; presidentbenke
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To: egarvue
egarvue states:
...there is a mighty struggle going on inside the LCMS - the liberal president Kieschnick, the liberal Atlantic District president Benke, and their supporters are using this episode to push their agenda. The LCMS is a quickly becoming a split church body, between those who favor biblical doctrine, and those who favor the lukewarm feel-good self-affirming type of pop Christianity that is so prevalent now.

There you go again egarvue. Speaking of "pop" I just popped back into this thread to see what had transpired since I left a few days ago and I see you bad mouthing Rev. Benke again. Don't you know that when you call your brother in Christ a fool, like this, you put your own soul in peril? see Mt 5:22.

Rev. Benke and you and I all want to hold our faith in the purest manner and this is only possible through the gifting of the Holy Spirit. Man [you and I] has no *sticking* power before God, so we dare not boast of ourselves, as in we "...favor biblical doctrine" and they don't.

Whether or not you agree with Rev. Benke you simply can't look at him and say, "There goes a fool!" You can't look at all of his NY ministries and conclude, there goes a "...lukewarm feel-good self-affirming type of pop Christianity."

Come on egarvue! This is hate speech in the "biblical" sense! You're not accurately describing Rev. Benke or his Christ centered ministry in NYC!!! Please egarvue and friends, who like to see yourselves in such a good light, stop attacking your brother in Christ!

121 posted on 07/24/2002 3:19:42 PM PDT by ThirstyMan
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Comment #122 Removed by Moderator

To: mgd3255
I am not Lutheran...

God was in charge on 9/11

I believe we are to offer the compassion of Christ. But that does not include worshiping false gods

123 posted on 07/25/2002 7:11:49 AM PDT by RnMomof7
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Comment #124 Removed by Moderator

Comment #125 Removed by Moderator

To: mgd3255
No compassion would be offering a drink of water, holding a hand..letting someone talk..feeding their family

The "bishop" got face time on National TV" and to do it he worshipped false gods with his presence.

That you are too stupid believe that mere presence constitutes subscription to and worship of false gods demonstrates the danger and the hatred inherent in your message.

I may not be smart in a wordly sense but I KNOW what the word of God says..and it says not to honor other gods.

You have a problem with Lutherans...your problem is not mine.

I have a problem with people that think God is like men..that thinks a public prayer is compassion because it makes you feel good

126 posted on 07/25/2002 7:41:13 AM PDT by RnMomof7
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To: mgd3255

I will say that obedience to the word of God has never been popular with unregenerate man.....the louder the protest the more correct the response I am afraid!
127 posted on 07/25/2002 7:42:58 AM PDT by RnMomof7
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Comment #128 Removed by Moderator

To: mgd3255
Standing on the podium while the prayers were being said and with his very own words he put them on the same level as the one true God..

I am not Lutheran..this is there business..I only report the word of God. Every man will stand for judgement and every man that has read these threads is now without excuse.They can not tell God "no one ever told me". Consider yourself told that He is a jealous God and will not SHARE His glory with any other God..

129 posted on 07/25/2002 8:05:46 AM PDT by RnMomof7
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To: brat
"ecumenicalism"=One World Religion of the End Times.

Well, not really. Just the same old raccoon with another ring around its tail. Synchretism is at least as old as the Tower of Babel. One of the persecuting Roman emperors included Jesus in his personal pantheon.

In my universe, lies are self-limiting, and God's truth prevails over time. False doctrines bring condign consequences, the wise take heed, and grow wiser, stronger, more influential.

The only believing communists are in western universities nowadays.

The notion that muslims and Christians worship the same god was discredited on 911, and is now regarded as the oh, so quaint, oh, so 20th century, creed of dupes and simpletons.

Let's rejoice in our God's triumphs, and quit looking for other boogeymen to cringe before.

130 posted on 07/25/2002 8:14:11 AM PDT by TomSmedley
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To: TomSmedley
The notion that muslims and Christians worship the same god was discredited on 911, and is now regarded as the oh, so quaint, oh, so 20th century, creed of dupes and simpletons.
Let's rejoice in our God's triumphs, and quit looking for other boogeymen to cringe before.

Thanks Tom. We need to let cooler heads prevail and stop seeing the devil when we're looking at a brother in Christ. My how the enemy loves to sow discord among the brethren.

132 posted on 07/25/2002 3:09:42 PM PDT by ThirstyMan
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To: mgd3255; RnMomof7
mgd3255:

It may help to review the proper role of the Church. In my reading of your comments, it appears that you think the Church should have as it's primary function some important social purpose, i.e. trying to make everyone "feel good" by meeting their physical and emotional needs. This is understandable since ALL of the large, mainline churches have adopted this "social gospel" focus. While Christians are indeed to show compassion to their fellow man, as motivated by the Gospel, which we do indeed do, this is not the purpose of the church. The PRIMARY function of the church is meeting the SPIRITUAL needs of mankind. The church has a simple teaching and baptizing mission, given by the Lord Jesus Christ Himself just before He ascended into heaven:


A Christian church should strive to proclaim the saving Gospel of Jesus Christ as revealed in the Bible, by which alone man can know the true God and the way to eternal life. That this should be our purpose and commitment rests upon the following statements of the Bible:

We should disavow the position that the church as a body is to promote social and political causes and opinions of men. The individual Christian will indeed show the fruits of faith by his concern for social and political causes wherever they present themselves. Our right of existence as a church, however, is limited by our readiness to say with St. Paul that we are "... determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified." (1 Corinthians 2:2)

Again, the focus of the Church, according to the above clear passages, is to attend to the SPIRITUAL needs of the world. Out of Gospel-motivated compassion for our fellow man, individual and/or groups of Christians may join together to meet the social and/or physical needs of suffering peoples, but that is NOT the purpose of the Church.

The joint prayer service was indeed a worship service. I suggest you read the "Faithfulness and Judging" section of my post 95 to help you understand the Scriptural reasons why God wants us to only worship/pray/commune with people who share the same confession of faith. If you do not care to wade through that, please at least consider the following passages by way of explanation:


While I am not a member of the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod, the LC-MS did the right thing in disciplining Rev. Benke as he transgressed all the above commands.
133 posted on 07/25/2002 3:10:14 PM PDT by FatherOfLiberty
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To: FatherOfLiberty
Another excellent post..
134 posted on 07/25/2002 3:11:50 PM PDT by RnMomof7
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To: goodieD
I have coined the phrase, "Jesus was the most religiously intolerant Man that ever walked the face of the earth."

Does that mean we should stop celebrating Christmas because of it's pagan orgin?

Also, consider this

In the Bible in 1 Cor. 10:23-33, Paul speaks about meat sacrificed to idols. This meat was often sold in the meat market and the question arose, "Should a Christian each such meat?" Paul said in verse 25, "Eat anything that is sold in the meat market, without asking questions for conscience' sake." The origins of the meat were, essentially, pagan. Many animals were raised for the purpose of sacrificing to pagan deities and their meat was offered in the market place. In reference to this Paul said it was okay to eat the meat. Then in verses 28-29 he says, "But if anyone should say to you, 'This is meat sacrificed to idols,' do not eat it, for the sake of the one who informed you, and for conscience' sake; 29I mean not your own conscience, but the other man's; for why is my freedom judged by another's conscience?" (NASB). Paul is saying that if you are with someone who might be stumbled by your eating meat that was sacrificed to idols, then don't eat it -- not because of you, but because of the other person.

Religious tolerance ?
135 posted on 07/30/2002 4:55:39 AM PDT by SkyRat
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To: SkyRat
That is not about religious tolerance, but not going out of your way to make people angry. There is a difference between believing in 10 different Gods, and just being polite to people. Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the light, No one comes to the Father but through me. One can be polite to people of other faiths, without giving credence to the viability of other faiths. If I was praying with people of other faiths, I'd be praying for their salvation. And btw, there are many Christians who do not celebrate Christmas in the way others do.
136 posted on 07/30/2002 6:56:47 AM PDT by goodieD
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To: Charles Henrickson

ping.


137 posted on 01/07/2009 1:59:52 PM PST by RedDogzRule (God bless America...because God knows we need it, especially now...!)
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To: FatherOfLiberty

“Although tracing a genealogy through the mother’s side was unusual...”

Jewish identity follows the maternal side. Perhaps that was the point Luke was trying to portray, for a Jewish audience.

“Here you could include at least a majority of Roman Catholic theologians, a dwindling majority of Protestant theologians, a super-majority in the Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod (LC-MS) a very small minority in the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA), and 100% of the theologians in the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod (WELS) and the Church of the Lutheran Confession.”

You can also include the Eastern Orthodox church and the Church Fathers in that list.


138 posted on 01/07/2009 2:53:13 PM PST by RedDogzRule (God bless America...because God knows we need it, especially now...!)
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