Interfaith Is No Faith

The Wall Street Journal ^ | July 19, 2002 | Mollie Ziegler

[Charles Henrickson]

You would think that the more militant forms of Islam would be enough to worry about these days, for those inclined to anguish over religious extremism. But no. Apparently the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod deserves our special concern. In late June, the church suspended the Rev. David Benke, the president of its Atlantic District and the pastor of a Brooklyn church, for praying with clerics who don't share the Christian faith.

[ThirstyMan]

egarvue states:
...there is a mighty struggle going on inside the LCMS - the liberal president Kieschnick, the liberal Atlantic District president Benke, and their supporters are using this episode to push their agenda. The LCMS is a quickly becoming a split church body, between those who favor biblical doctrine, and those who favor the lukewarm feel-good self-affirming type of pop Christianity that is so prevalent now.

There you go again egarvue. Speaking of "pop" I just popped back into this thread to see what had transpired since I left a few days ago and I see you bad mouthing Rev. Benke again. Don't you know that when you call your brother in Christ a fool, like this, you put your own soul in peril? see Mt 5:22.

Rev. Benke and you and I all want to hold our faith in the purest manner and this is only possible through the gifting of the Holy Spirit. Man [you and I] has no *sticking* power before God, so we dare not boast of ourselves, as in we "...favor biblical doctrine" and they don't.

Whether or not you agree with Rev. Benke you simply can't look at him and say, "There goes a fool!" You can't look at all of his NY ministries and conclude, there goes a "...lukewarm feel-good self-affirming type of pop Christianity."

Come on egarvue! This is hate speech in the "biblical" sense! You're not accurately describing Rev. Benke or his Christ centered ministry in NYC!!! Please egarvue and friends, who like to see yourselves in such a good light, stop attacking your brother in Christ!

[RnMomof7]

I am not Lutheran...

God was in charge on 9/11

I believe we are to offer the compassion of Christ. But that does not include worshiping false gods

[RnMomof7]

No compassion would be offering a drink of water, holding a hand..letting someone talk..feeding their family

The "bishop" got face time on National TV" and to do it he worshipped false gods with his presence.

That you are too stupid believe that mere presence constitutes subscription to and worship of false gods demonstrates the danger and the hatred inherent in your message.

I may not be smart in a wordly sense but I KNOW what the word of God says..and it says not to honor other gods.

You have a problem with Lutherans...your problem is not mine.

I have a problem with people that think God is like men..that thinks a public prayer is compassion because it makes you feel good

[RnMomof7]

I will say that obedience to the word of God has never been popular with unregenerate man.....the louder the protest the more correct the response I am afraid!

[RnMomof7]

Standing on the podium while the prayers were being said and with his very own words he put them on the same level as the one true God..

I am not Lutheran..this is there business..I only report the word of God. Every man will stand for judgement and every man that has read these threads is now without excuse.They can not tell God "no one ever told me". Consider yourself told that He is a jealous God and will not SHARE His glory with any other God..

[TomSmedley]

"ecumenicalism"=One World Religion of the End Times.

Well, not really. Just the same old raccoon with another ring around its tail. Synchretism is at least as old as the Tower of Babel. One of the persecuting Roman emperors included Jesus in his personal pantheon.

In my universe, lies are self-limiting, and God's truth prevails over time. False doctrines bring condign consequences, the wise take heed, and grow wiser, stronger, more influential.

The only believing communists are in western universities nowadays.

The notion that muslims and Christians worship the same god was discredited on 911, and is now regarded as the oh, so quaint, oh, so 20th century, creed of dupes and simpletons.

Let's rejoice in our God's triumphs, and quit looking for other boogeymen to cringe before.

[ThirstyMan]

The notion that muslims and Christians worship the same god was discredited on 911, and is now regarded as the oh, so quaint, oh, so 20th century, creed of dupes and simpletons.
Let's rejoice in our God's triumphs, and quit looking for other boogeymen to cringe before.

Thanks Tom. We need to let cooler heads prevail and stop seeing the devil when we're looking at a brother in Christ. My how the enemy loves to sow discord among the brethren.

[FatherOfLiberty]

mgd3255:

It may help to review the proper role of the Church. In my reading of your comments, it appears that you think the Church should have as it's primary function some important social purpose, i.e. trying to make everyone "feel good" by meeting their physical and emotional needs. This is understandable since ALL of the large, mainline churches have adopted this "social gospel" focus. While Christians are indeed to show compassion to their fellow man, as motivated by the Gospel, which we do indeed do, this is not the purpose of the church. The PRIMARY function of the church is meeting the SPIRITUAL needs of mankind. The church has a simple teaching and baptizing mission, given by the Lord Jesus Christ Himself just before He ascended into heaven:

Matthew 28
¹⁸   And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
¹⁹   Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
²⁰   Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

A Christian church should strive to proclaim the saving Gospel of Jesus Christ as revealed in the Bible, by which alone man can know the true God and the way to eternal life. That this should be our purpose and commitment rests upon the following statements of the Bible:

Matthew 28
¹⁸   And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
¹⁹   Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
²⁰   Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

John 17
³And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

Acts 4
¹²Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved."

We should disavow the position that the church as a body is to promote social and political causes and opinions of men. The individual Christian will indeed show the fruits of faith by his concern for social and political causes wherever they present themselves. Our right of existence as a church, however, is limited by our readiness to say with St. Paul that we are "... determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified." (1 Corinthians 2:2)

1 Peter 2
⁹But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;

Matthew 5
Believers Are Salt and Light
¹³ "You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt loses its flavor, how shall it be seasoned? It is then good for nothing but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot by men.
¹⁴"You are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hidden. ¹⁵Nor do they light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house. ¹⁶Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven.

Again, the focus of the Church, according to the above clear passages, is to attend to the SPIRITUAL needs of the world. Out of Gospel-motivated compassion for our fellow man, individual and/or groups of Christians may join together to meet the social and/or physical needs of suffering peoples, but that is NOT the purpose of the Church.

The joint prayer service was indeed a worship service. I suggest you read the "Faithfulness and Judging" section of my post 95 to help you understand the Scriptural reasons why God wants us to only worship/pray/commune with people who share the same confession of faith. If you do not care to wade through that, please at least consider the following passages by way of explanation:

1 Corinthians 1
Sectarianism Is Sin
¹⁰ Now I plead with you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

2 Corinthians 6
¹⁴Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness? ¹⁵And what accord has Christ with Belial? Or what part has a believer with an unbeliever? ... ¹⁷Therefore Come out from among them And be separate, says the Lord...

Ephesians 5
⁶Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. ⁷Therefore do not be partakers with them.

2 John 1
¹⁰If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him; ¹¹for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds.

Romans 16
Avoid Divisive Persons
¹⁷ Now I urge you, brethren, note those who cause divisions and offenses, contrary to the doctrine which you learned, and avoid them. ¹⁸For those who are such do not serve our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly, and by smooth words and flattering speech deceive the hearts of the simple.

While I am not a member of the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod, the LC-MS did the right thing in disciplining Rev. Benke as he transgressed all the above commands.

[RnMomof7]

Another excellent post..

[SkyRat]

I have coined the phrase, "Jesus was the most religiously intolerant Man that ever walked the face of the earth."

Does that mean we should stop celebrating Christmas because of it's pagan orgin?

Also, consider this

In the Bible in 1 Cor. 10:23-33, Paul speaks about meat sacrificed to idols. This meat was often sold in the meat market and the question arose, "Should a Christian each such meat?" Paul said in verse 25, "Eat anything that is sold in the meat market, without asking questions for conscience' sake." The origins of the meat were, essentially, pagan. Many animals were raised for the purpose of sacrificing to pagan deities and their meat was offered in the market place. In reference to this Paul said it was okay to eat the meat. Then in verses 28-29 he says, "But if anyone should say to you, 'This is meat sacrificed to idols,' do not eat it, for the sake of the one who informed you, and for conscience' sake; 29I mean not your own conscience, but the other man's; for why is my freedom judged by another's conscience?" (NASB). Paul is saying that if you are with someone who might be stumbled by your eating meat that was sacrificed to idols, then don't eat it -- not because of you, but because of the other person.

Religious tolerance ?

[goodieD]

That is not about religious tolerance, but not going out of your way to make people angry. There is a difference between believing in 10 different Gods, and just being polite to people. Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the light, No one comes to the Father but through me. One can be polite to people of other faiths, without giving credence to the viability of other faiths. If I was praying with people of other faiths, I'd be praying for their salvation. And btw, there are many Christians who do not celebrate Christmas in the way others do.

[RedDogzRule]

ping.

[RedDogzRule]

“Although tracing a genealogy through the mother’s side was unusual...”

Jewish identity follows the maternal side. Perhaps that was the point Luke was trying to portray, for a Jewish audience.

“Here you could include at least a majority of Roman Catholic theologians, a dwindling majority of Protestant theologians, a super-majority in the Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod (LC-MS) a very small minority in the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA), and 100% of the theologians in the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod (WELS) and the Church of the Lutheran Confession.”

You can also include the Eastern Orthodox church and the Church Fathers in that list.