U.S. government doesn't trust Americans

WorldNetDaily.com ^ | Wednesday, July 17, 2002 | Joseph Farah

[grebu]

You are incorrect. You still need a warrant, but the authorities don't have to tell you beforehand and can search without your knowledge.

What they can do is trace your internet activity without a warrant if you are considered a hacker. However, if they want to trace a bill-paying customer the Feds must still provide a warrant to the ISP.

But as far as searching your home, they still need a warrant. A judge must give the warrant, and the feds must submit probably cause to the judge. You have your due process.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c107:2:./temp/~c107FYUICG::

Regards

Greg

[tacticalogic]

I haven't read where informants will be paid?

The bureaucrats running it will get paid. While the informants themselves may not, the state and federal bureaucracies have a mutual back-scratching arrangement that makes it easy for, say the FCC, to exert pressure on the cable companies to make sure all of their field techs "volunteer" for the program. It won't matter to the bureaucrats wheather the tips are valid or not, what they're after is impressive numbers they can throw around to justify keeping their jobs and expanding their departments come budget time.

[lawdog]

Once again, " spot on ", my friend!

[Marysecretary]

Thanks, John. Not only does the government not trust US but WE don't trust the government. Sounds like a mutual admiration society to me...NOT. Actually, this plan sounds Hitler-like (for those who can remember the second world war and the Hitler Youth who spied on their parents).

[Marysecretary]

ooh, Arne. Nice answer! I'd like to have coffee with you some day!

[Marysecretary]

Well, well, just because we do, that's why (smile).

[browardchad]

I also don't think you should disregard common people's observations.

On the contrary, I believe the observations of "common," responsible people are probably the most valuable resource we can have. (We have a small service business, and since 9/11, every one has been riding around with the FBI hotline number glued to their dash -- and these are people who know the areas, and people, they service, very well, and who would think twice before jumping to conclusions.)

My point is that you do not need a federally organized program to inspire this kind of cooperation. Federal meddling has more potential for abuse than good.

[weikel]

Okay well maybe you do :).

[weikel]

Exactly.

[subterfuge]

I wrote a paper on this yesterday for a management class I'm taking. Its not that good, but here it is fwiw.

American Spies
American spies. It’s not what it sounds like. The U.S. Justice Department intends to recruit millions of American citizens as government informants. In America, to spy on Americans.
The new recruitment program is, according to the government web-site citizencorps.gov, “a nationwide program giving millions of American truckers, letter carriers, train conductors, ship captains, utility employees, and others a formal way to report suspicious terrorist activity.” That all sounds all right on the surface, but who are the “others” that will also be watching? Will it be the pizza delivery guy trying to get a peek through the window to see what books you may be reading? Will it be the appliance repairman who just happens to get a look at your computer? Oh, nothing to hide? Maybe the new government informant will be the grudge-holding neighbor you had a little spat with a few weeks ago.

Called TIPS, an acronym for Terrorism Information and Prevention System, the program “will have a higher percentage of citizen informants than the Stasi secret police of the former East German block (Goldstein 2002).” Set to start in August of 2002, the citizencorps.gov website already has a hyper-link set up for easy volunteering.
The final paragraph of the Operation TIPS web page states that “Everywhere in America, a concerned worker can call a toll-free number and be connected directly to a hotline routing calls to the proper law enforcement agency or other responder organizations when appropriate.” But when is it appropriate? Can anyone volunteer? The Operation TIPS program doesn’t mention any of the answers to these questions.

It just seems like its common sense for all Americans to be aware of what is going on around them during these uncertain times. Is there really a need for a federal informant system made up of the populace? In a Washington Post editorial entitled “What is Operation TIPS?,” the author has many questions regarding this spying on Americans by Americans, including whether or not it will be focusing on “cargo shipping or on people in their homes (Washington Post 2002).” Also, if there is a focus on peoples’ activities in their homes, what type of activities “will the government be urging workers to report…And what incentives, if any, will be used to encourage volunteers (Washington Post 2002)?”

Public awareness is always a good thing when it comes to crime or terrorism. It is definitely a good policy to educate and train people who are around potential targets or places where lethal materials may be smuggled. However, to recruit Americans whose job it is to enter the homes of the public for reasons unrelated to law enforcement, is wrong. Law enforcement officers cannot enter people’s homes without a warrant or permission of the owner and they should not be using average Americans to conduct surveillance they could not legally conduct themselves, in this writer’s opinion.

In an article that appeared in the Sydney Morning Herald, author Ritt Goldstein points out that current U.S. Justice Department procedures dictate that all reports go into a database for “future reference” and will be available to all police forces and related agencies. Unfortunately, in this author’s opinion, the American who is reported as a “suspect” will be totally unaware of the existence of the report and of its contents.

The recruitment of so many untrained Americans to act as spies is indeed a slippery slope. It is a good idea for Americans to be aware of the possibility of terrorism and should report truly suspicious activities. But to create an official, centralized government network of individuals, who in no way will be required to demonstrate an aptitude for, and competence in, discerning what constitutes suspicious activity relating to terrorism, is wrong. The American people deserve a well thought out plan that both uncovers terrorist activities and protects the liberty of law-abiding citizens.

[ArneFufkin]

Bagpipes too, huh da Vinci? One would think the poetry, cartooning (phhhhhtttt ...), piano playing - of course composing, oil painting would be enough to satisfy any geniuis' muse - but bagpiping??? I don't think Gallileo, Michaelangelo or even Steve Allen showed that virtuosity. LMAO! How could any one man be so f'ng hip? You're a computer programmer Bach, deal with it. What a horse's ass. Who has mad crushes on cop-killers.

[Wm Bach]

I would have thought you would appreciate the highland pipes, being a windbag and all. A green one at that! heh heh

[niki]

bump

[Eagle Eye]

Did you think that up all by yourself?

Would you be so supportive of Americans being on the payroll to be secret police if this was advocated by the clintons?

Have you considered that it may well be implemented by someone who isn't W ?

Secret spies being accepted and defended. In America. Who'd've thunk it?

[Kay Ludlow]

While you are correct that this doesn't create the opportunity for anyone to inform on others they don't already have, it does introduce money into the equation, and provides an incentive to inform that wasn't there previously.

This program would encourage companies to give employees paid time to observe and report. I wouldn't think many companies would leap to volunteer to participate, because the small percentage of employees who look for any way to avoid working while they're being paid would REALLY take to a program like this - needing help with their work every day to cover the time they're on the phone with their friendly TIPS contact... People who are truly concerned now can call. A campaign to advertise the number to call would be more effective than this program. Having to call on their own time does deter non-serious calls. The Postal Service has already said they don't intend to participate, probably for that reason.

[tacticalogic]

This program would encourage companies to give employees paid time to observe and report. I wouldn't think many companies would leap to volunteer to participate

As I noted earlier, many of those targeted for recruitment work for service industries. These are generally government regulated monopolies, and as such the government has a huge amount of leverage on them, without having to be overt or explicit about it.

My greatest concern is the potential for abuse. Clinton turned the CIA into Hollywood's international copyright police as a payoff for their political support. It isn't hard to imagine the next Rat administration using this to gather information on homeschoolers and gun owners.

[semaj]

The government is not, never was, and never will be your friend.

[GailA]

The feeling is mutal I don't TRUST THE GUBERMINT.

[Kay Ludlow]

I agree with your concerns; I just hold out some hope that the people running those companies will recognize it as too costly to just blindly agree. Maybe I'm too optimistic!