Posted on 07/15/2002 10:42:59 AM PDT by ExSoldier
The Bush Administration aims to recruit millions of United States citizens as domestic informants in a program likely to alarm civil liberties groups.
The Terrorism Information and Prevention System, or TIPS, means the US will have a higher percentage of citizen informants than the former East Germany through the infamous Stasi secret police. The program would use a minimum of 4 per cent of Americans to report "suspicious activity".
Civil liberties groups have already warned that, with the passage earlier this year of the Patriot Act, there is potential for abusive, large-scale investigations of US citizens.
As with the Patriot Act, TIPS is being pursued as part of the so-called war against terrorism. It is a Department of Justice project.
Highlighting the scope of the surveillance network, TIPS volunteers are being recruited primarily from among those whose work provides access to homes, businesses or transport systems. Letter carriers, utility employees, truck drivers and train conductors are among those named as targeted recruits.
A pilot program, described on the government Web site www.citizencorps.gov, is scheduled to start next month in 10 cities, with 1 million informants participating in the first stage. Assuming the program is initiated in the 10 largest US cities, that will be 1 million informants for a total population of almost 24 million, or one in 24 people. Historically, informant systems have been the tools of non-democratic states.
According to a 1992 report by Harvard University's Project on Justice, the accuracy of informant reports is problematic, with some informants having embellished the truth, and others suspected of having fabricated their reports.
Present Justice Department procedures mean that informant reports will enter databases for future reference and/or action. The information will then be broadly available within the department, related agencies and local police forces. The targeted individual will remain unaware of the existence of the report and of its contents.
The Patriot Act already provides for a person's home to be searched without that person being informed that a search was ever performed, or of any surveillance devices that were implanted.
At state and local levels the TIPS program will be co-ordinated by the Federal Emergency Management Agency, which was given sweeping new powers, including internment, as part of the Reagan Administration's national security initiatives. Many key figures of the Reagan era are part of the Bush Administration.
The creation of a US "shadow government", operating in secret, was another Reagan national security initiative.
Ritt Goldstein is an investigative journalist and a former leader in the movement for US law enforcement accountability. He has lived in Sweden since 1997, seeking political asylum there, saying he was the victim of life-threatening assaults in retaliation for his accountability efforts. His application has been supported by the European Parliament, five of Sweden's seven big political parties, clergy, and Amnesty and other rights groups.
Many of us remember federal paramilitary police action against innocent men, women, and children at their church home of Mount Carmel near Waco, Texas February through 19 April, 1993.
Al Qaeduh (ed.) should contemplate this Republic's wrath which the police statists who organized and covered up that mass murder under the Clintons' power display should remember. Americans will hunt down and deliver unto "just dust" those who murder innocents.
Federal guidelines effect most of the laws on the books. You ever hear the word “unconstitutional”. Federal officers now have the right to investigate in the same manner as your local police. You want to pay some guy 75K to set in his office because if he walks down the street he might see something. He can’t go into a mall because he’s presents there violates your rights? Give me a break.
If you are a crook and you let your neighbor know do you have a constitutional right not to be turned in? If your neighbor libels you by calling you a terrorist do you lose the right for civil redress?
When was the last time you wife went to the doctor? Ask her what inquiries were made into the availability of guns in your home. I would be surprised if she was not quizzed on the subject.
”Any man's personal business in regards to his wife......is his own business and nobody elses business.”
If you sell out your family you’ll sell out your country. McCain’s first wife stuck with him and hung in there until he got out of Nam, as did his country. McCain turned on both. I give the man credit for his service to his country as a warrior but he was not the first to go sideways and won’t be the last.
Although one certainly hopes and prays not, the mathematical chances for a major act of destruction of soft civilian target(s) to happen between now and the summer of 2003 is great; and assuredly it will be carried out by foreigners resident in the USA and in our midst RIGHT NOW.
And it is at that time, I feel, that this very thread will have taken on a new meaning and significance, and the argument for citizen mobility on a integrated national, state and local level during this current Time of War Against Islamist Radicalism will be even hard to agitate against. I will grant the point that the program will take on greater significance and viability if at once illegal immigration is halted and border security is preserved, with a zero tolerance for any non-citizen to enter our territory without due cause and authorization.
You can't be serious! Look, I had a good buddy in the army. He was an airborne ranger/Special Forces and GAWD knows what else. He was married to a real nutcase of a wife who got preggers to take advantage of his status as an up and coming officer. When he went on those far flung overseas deployments was he a traitor to the country because he snagged a little "strange" on the side? Now you can give ME a break!
We had a little motto we officers used to repeat that simply went like this:
"NEVER DIP YOUR WICK WITHIN 500 MILES OF THE FLAGPOLE" aka....all marriages are null and void when you cross the international date line. Now, mind you...at that time in my life, I was SINGLE. I'm just telling you the prevailing attitude of the married officers. Some of those guys, to be sure modified the range to 500 YARDS of the flagpole, but the principal is the same.
Many of these same guys were later decorated in a wide variety of hostile actions. Are their marital infidelities grounds for treason? You're free to your moral code, but it makes America great that others don't have to abide by them.
BTW, Federal Officers have no local jurisdiction (at this time) unless they can prove some form of federal involvement as in a federal statute broken. For example thats why there is no federal law against MURDER. They have to show a violation of federal rights and that is usually after the state has had it's shot at their level. At least thats what my old law prof said.
I can guarantee you that nobody in my family has ever been quizzed by a medical doctor on our guns! Thats because I let 'em know right off where I stand by giving them my business card as a certified firearms instructor. That goes for my wife's obgyn too. We share the same primary care doc. Now, I've given the CCW CLASS to quite a few docs.....After all, I live in Miami, Florida.
Matte mashita! Then, we're making progress. :) Best regards, By.
Of course not. The concern here is the risk of becoming your own enemy, in the process. I hope no-one's offended if I refer to a parallel message, from Scripture:
what does it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world but lose his own soul? (Mark 8:36).
Now that's a real stupid statement. I didn't called adultery treason did I ? Now read it slow and carefully I said, "If you sell out your family you’ll sell out your country." Many have sold out their families and not their country but given the right incentive they would. Or are you telling me that you love your country more than your family? Tell me Capt. when you fight for your country who are your fighting for?
"You're free to your moral code, but it makes America great that others don't have to abide by them. "
When a man gives his word I expect him to live by it. Is that such a tuff code for you to live by?
"BTW, Federal Officers have no local jurisdiction (at this time) unless they can prove some form of federal involvement as in a federal statute broken. For example thats why there is no federal law against MURDER. They have to show a violation of federal rights and that is usually after the state has had it's shot at their level. At least thats what my old law prof said. "
We are talking act of or conspiring to commit acts of war against the USA.
"I can guarantee you that nobody in my family has ever been quizzed by a medical doctor on our guns! Thats because I let 'em know right off where I stand by giving them my business card as a certified firearms instructor. That goes for my wife's obgyn too. We share the same primary care doc. Now, I've given the CCW CLASS to quite a few docs.....After all, I live in Miami, Florida."
Guess they don't have to ask do they. I don't understand you Florida statement but I'm sure it a wonderful city.
http:democrap.com
I think you're splitting hairs...you implied that all adulterers are also traitors; simply because they break one oath, they'll break them all. I disagree. I have taught psychology for about six years and I understand something I don't think you ever will: People are molded by their environment and circumstance. You have no right to judge anybody's actions so long as they are not directly harmful to you or the nation.
Say you drive on an isolated country road all the time. The speed limit is 35 but you do 55 or 60 because you know its safe and if you get into an accident, it'll probably be just YOUR neck busted. Does that mean if given the chance to commit murder and get away with it, you'll do the deed? Of course not! You, my friend, are very one dimensional and shallow. You exemplify what the democrats are always accusing us of: being narrow minded, exclusive and divisive.
I love that I teach in an inner city school and that I have been named a social studies Teacher of the Year there. I have learned something that seems to elude you: I have learned to be tolerant of other people.
"When a man gives his word I expect him to live by it."
See...I think that when a man gives his word to the country such as when I swore "to defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic" I expect that to be obeyed to the letter because it applies to everybody. The security of the nation depends on it. But, I'll bet that you'd have been one of the first people to yell "BURN HER," if you had lived during the Salem Witch Trials. I'll also bet that if it were in your power to put a "Scarlet Letter" on each and every member of society guilty of fooling around...you'd be right up there clamoring for that to happen! See...I put that attitude near the top of the definition for "domestic enemies" that I'm supposed to defend the Constitution against. I guess I'm pretty Libertarian in my views.
"We are talking act of or conspiring to commit acts of war against the USA."
You know what? I'll agree to this argument of yours. I think I misunderstood you in the first place and I'm man enough to say that. I admit it when I think I'm in the wrong.
"Guess they don't have to ask do they. I don't understand you Florida statement but I'm sure it a wonderful city."
Well, I have never been refused medical treatment and I have never had any of them pull out their liberal claptrap arguments in an inane attempt to change my mind. In fact, I have managed to change the mindset of quite a few of the formerly antigun crowd once I have a chance to reason with them which ultimately leads to a class and a trip to the range.
Miami is no longer the place in which I was raised. I feel compelled to carry a gun here and I didn't use to feel that way. Having had to draw against a hostile target three times in the last ten years has soured my image of this city. Thank God I never had to fire...although I absolutely would have and that certainty was communicated in my stance so the opposition also knew and fled the scene. This is not counting actions taken in the aftermath of Hurricane Andrew which absolutely brought out the dregs of mans inner nastiness. That horror ably demonstarted the trueism that "FREE men aren't EQUAL...and EQUAL men aren't FREE." It also demonstrated the absolute necessity for free men to own and carry guns where the law is essentially not equal to the task which statement applies everywhere in this country but especially during time of extreme calamity such as wartime and in the aftermath of a disaster (either natural or man made).
I remember just after Sept 11, several months after: I had finally found a copy for sale of a book on the Arabs by David Pryce-Jones (now re-issued), found it at a bookstore in India, of all places! And the price was very low, and the shipping cost very low.
When the postman brought the package to my door, he looked at me very, very closely. It flustered me for a moment. Usually the postmen prop my packages behind the screen door and just leave them. This man wanted a look at me. Finally I realized what was going on, and told him that it was a book and how I came to be ordering it from a shop in India. He was obviously then perfectly satisfied and left.
I was not offended. In fact, it was a reassuring experience. I don't think alert citizens in any job is a bad idea.
coming to your neighborhood soon!
Long Live Big Brother!
But, I have a buddy I shoot with thats an FBI Agent and turned the kid over to him who began an investigation and turned up...well...I can't talk about it, it seems to be ongoing and the INS is now involved.
See, the liberals control the schools and the inner city is just packed with disaffected students who might be linked to terror cells via the internet. Disaffected liberal TEACHERS and ADMINISTRATORS turn a blind eye to the threat in their midst! In this case, the student was a pakastani national here on a student visa who was bragging to everybody that he and his daddy were going to train in Yemen with Al Quaida (sp?) and join the terrorists. He is no longer in school...and I don't know what happened. But the FBI did come to the school and interview staff. When THAT happened, all threats against my job just went away.
In fact, I passed my official observation with a "DOIN' GREAT! SEEEEE YA!" kind of pop in and pop out of my classroom. Very unusual. I mean I always pass...was a social studies teacher of the year a while back, but THIS....was weird!
There has been a focus on the college levels for these people on student visas but I think a far more dangerous threat exists in our high schools. Anybody with any contacts at all in law enforcement or a governors office ought to be urging local officials keep an eye on this segment! The kid who flew his airplane (cessna) into the tampa office building was in high school. In the inner city I hear it all the time they feel they have "nothing to live for..." etc so they are perfect dupes to use in a suicide bomb attack. Very easily manipulated because they are so uninformed and brainwashed by the liberals.....
And for a LEG O-3 to tell me about team work is laughable.
"I think you're splitting hairs...you implied that all adulterers are also traitors; simply because they break one oath, they'll break them all. "
You sir are a liar. A man that will cheat on his family will cheat on anyone. That is John McCain
Again : "If you sell out your family you’ll sell out your country."
Me thinks you protest to hard Brutus.
"See...I think that when a man gives his word to the country such as when I swore "to defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic" I expect that to be obeyed to the letter because it applies to everybody. "
So a man should only be held to his word when some LEG officer deems it is in the interest of the country? At one time million dollar deals were seal in this country with a hand shake and now we come to this where a mans word is a joke.
PS I've been in three shooting on the streets of San Jose Calif. one of them fatal so stop trying to dazzle me you're not.
http://democrap.com
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