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US planning to recruit one in 24 Americans as citizen spies
Sydney Morning Herald ^ | July 15, 2002 | Ritt Goldstein

Posted on 07/15/2002 10:42:59 AM PDT by ExSoldier

The Bush Administration aims to recruit millions of United States citizens as domestic informants in a program likely to alarm civil liberties groups.

The Terrorism Information and Prevention System, or TIPS, means the US will have a higher percentage of citizen informants than the former East Germany through the infamous Stasi secret police. The program would use a minimum of 4 per cent of Americans to report "suspicious activity".

Civil liberties groups have already warned that, with the passage earlier this year of the Patriot Act, there is potential for abusive, large-scale investigations of US citizens.

As with the Patriot Act, TIPS is being pursued as part of the so-called war against terrorism. It is a Department of Justice project.

Highlighting the scope of the surveillance network, TIPS volunteers are being recruited primarily from among those whose work provides access to homes, businesses or transport systems. Letter carriers, utility employees, truck drivers and train conductors are among those named as targeted recruits.

A pilot program, described on the government Web site www.citizencorps.gov, is scheduled to start next month in 10 cities, with 1 million informants participating in the first stage. Assuming the program is initiated in the 10 largest US cities, that will be 1 million informants for a total population of almost 24 million, or one in 24 people. Historically, informant systems have been the tools of non-democratic states.

According to a 1992 report by Harvard University's Project on Justice, the accuracy of informant reports is problematic, with some informants having embellished the truth, and others suspected of having fabricated their reports.

Present Justice Department procedures mean that informant reports will enter databases for future reference and/or action. The information will then be broadly available within the department, related agencies and local police forces. The targeted individual will remain unaware of the existence of the report and of its contents.

The Patriot Act already provides for a person's home to be searched without that person being informed that a search was ever performed, or of any surveillance devices that were implanted.

At state and local levels the TIPS program will be co-ordinated by the Federal Emergency Management Agency, which was given sweeping new powers, including internment, as part of the Reagan Administration's national security initiatives. Many key figures of the Reagan era are part of the Bush Administration.

The creation of a US "shadow government", operating in secret, was another Reagan national security initiative.

Ritt Goldstein is an investigative journalist and a former leader in the movement for US law enforcement accountability. He has lived in Sweden since 1997, seeking political asylum there, saying he was the victim of life-threatening assaults in retaliation for his accountability efforts. His application has been supported by the European Parliament, five of Sweden's seven big political parties, clergy, and Amnesty and other rights groups.


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To: AmericanInTokyo

21 posted on 07/15/2002 12:06:43 PM PDT by steve-b
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To: B4Ranch

22 posted on 07/15/2002 12:13:58 PM PDT by AmericanInTokyo
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To: ExSoldier
When the government closes and mans our borders, begin to deport any and all illegal immigrants , checks out all legal immigrants and deporting those who need to be , begins 'profiling' where it is necessary, then I will believe this citizen squad is there for our good. If the government was truly interested in the welfare of this nation, they would be taking the common sense steps that any, any nation concerned for itself would do. Instead we are being, 'Oh, so tolerant', and inviting any and all to come across our borders 'to do the work no one else wants to do'(actually, I suppose that could mean destroying the US).

Until our government begins to act like it is truly interested in this country, I can't see this as doing anything but creating a network of snitches, who will do so for their own personal reasons, and to keep the citizenry in line for the rulers 'who know what they are doing'. (Do they ever!)

23 posted on 07/15/2002 12:21:30 PM PDT by nanny
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To: AmericanInTokyo; DrBarryVincent; B4Ranch
To paraphrase Benjamin Franklin: Those who are willing to trade their liberties for greater security deserve neither.

AmericanInTokyo, I will tolerate greater restrictions than already exist on the freedoms of innocent Americans ONLY when our employees have done everything possible short of shredding the Constitution to ensure our security.

"I'll/We'll make it safer" has been the traditional clarion call of tyrants in all times and in all countries. Don't be too quick to give up your rights (and everyone else's), because you'll not see them restored anytime soon (or ever). Notice how the "War on Terror" is being labeled as "indefinite?" This is a recipe for the indefinite suspension of our rights.

24 posted on 07/15/2002 12:36:50 PM PDT by Ancesthntr
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Comment #25 Removed by Moderator

Comment #26 Removed by Moderator

To: Ancesthntr
To paraphrase Benjamin Franklin: Those who are willing to trade their liberties for greater security deserve neither.

I see your point. But Old Ben, as good as a man he is, was not God, nor did he even envision the amount of personal liberties that were suspended both by de-facto government command and voluntarily by the American People, for a four year period during World War II. Rationing. Censorship. Suspension of certain communicative rights or rights of association. Organizations banned (German American Bund or Amaterasu Kai (Japanese). Civil defense groups, including counter espionage collaborations. Report all that is suspicious. We have been through all of this before.

Need examples?

I dispute the whole notion that we are not at war. We are indeed at war and it is against a deadly enemy. To deal with homeland defense at a time like this, with our porous borders and sleeper agents here (already proven), without a strategy that includes the cooperation of citizens to be vigilant and organized, to me seems irrational and quite silly, IMHO. I guaran damn tee you that you would not be crying out about 'liberties' from a cot on a subway platform asphixiating from sarin or VX gas. Ask Japanese attacked by Aum Shinrikyo seven years ago.

27 posted on 07/15/2002 1:18:37 PM PDT by AmericanInTokyo
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To: wardcleaver
We do not, repeat, do not need citizen spies to denounce their neighbors!

What should the "citizen spies" (clever, loaded term for sake of debate) do, then, if their neighbors fit the profile and are taking photographs of damns or bridges, or have been blabbering at strip joints that they are going to take down a tower, or are purchasing large amounts of fertilizer and Ryder trucks?

Further, I respectfully have to dispute your interpretation that we are not at war. As I write, if you are anywhere near Los Angeles, San Francisco and certainly NYC and Washington DC, your sky is being patrolled by CAP (Combat Air Patrol) on alert, with hot missiles on board, under the war operating rules to shoot to kill. What activity are our troops in Afghanistan currently engaged in? Are you aware of the Declaration of War issued against the United States by an organization called 'al-Qaeda'? Just wondering.

28 posted on 07/15/2002 1:29:31 PM PDT by AmericanInTokyo
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To: nanny
Actually I would agree with some things you have said.
29 posted on 07/15/2002 1:31:03 PM PDT by AmericanInTokyo
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To: AmericanInTokyo
Unless we fight there will be no BILL OF RIGHTS!
30 posted on 07/15/2002 1:31:55 PM PDT by B4Ranch
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To: Ancesthntr
AmericanInTokyo, I will tolerate greater restrictions than already exist on the freedoms of innocent Americans ONLY when our employees have done everything possible short of shredding the Constitution to ensure our security.

"I'll/We'll make it safer" has been the traditional clarion call of tyrants in all times and in all countries. Don't be too quick to give up your rights (and everyone else's), because you'll not see them restored anytime soon (or ever). Notice how the "War on Terror" is being labeled as "indefinite?" This is a recipe for the indefinite suspension of our rights.

EXTREMELY well said.

31 posted on 07/15/2002 1:41:35 PM PDT by Jefferson Adams
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To: Jefferson Adams
Thanks for echoing the platitudes.

But seriously speaking, you have my curiosity now. Q: What level of national, regional or local coordination, then, do you suggest (in terms of defense against terrorist acts withing the US, and at which level, and how should it be structured, who should structure it, then?

32 posted on 07/15/2002 2:13:48 PM PDT by AmericanInTokyo
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To: glc1173@aol.com
I have two full size (160 lbs) Newfoundlands. Will they do?
33 posted on 07/15/2002 2:13:51 PM PDT by ExSoldier
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To: SMEDLEYBUTLER
GEE, I'm SORRY! I looked and didn't find this one anywhere...but I only looked today....just before I posted. I should have known a GoZILLION other freepers wpuld beat me to an original post. Sorry.
34 posted on 07/15/2002 2:16:04 PM PDT by ExSoldier
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To: AmericanInTokyo
a strategy that includes the cooperation of citizens to be vigilant and organized

There's your problem. Self-directed citizen vigilance is a good thing, because most people have a reasonable idea of what is worth reporting to the authorities. Citizens being organized and directed by the state is a bad thing, because the authorities are in a position to issue self-serving descriptions of what ought to be reported.

The fact that the authorities have not seen fit to take obvious measures (e.g. arming pilots, seriously tightening up on travel from known hotbeds of terrorist support) makes it very difficult to believe that their sole agenda is legitimate protection of national security.

35 posted on 07/15/2002 6:45:25 PM PDT by steve-b
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To: AmericanInTokyo
I assume that this is a rhetorical question -- anyone who has been here for any length of time understands the difference between a citizen militia and a national police force.
36 posted on 07/15/2002 6:47:13 PM PDT by steve-b
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To: ExSoldier
I wish we could recruit political spies to tell us about what Clinton has been doing and sending these people to jail. After all, their jurisdiction warrants scrutiny.
37 posted on 07/15/2002 10:10:35 PM PDT by lavaroise
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To: Darth Sidious
Get real. What you depict is what we will have as soon as the radical Muslims take over this country. You better fight for this country while you can.

No matter what you say - we have a right to protect our families and we will do so. I would gladly report suspicious activity, I will gladly report seeing young girls seemingly held against their wishes in a van. This same thing goes on daily right now and has even before the attack.

Americans have been spoiled into thinking they were safe in this country. That is no longer the case because there are too many ways radical groups can inflict harm if they intend to go after citizens instead of militaries. For us to ignore this fact because we don't want to have to watch those arounds us is to let it happen.

They want to take us down - they want the riches this country has because they never build anything of their own.

Our only real protection is for all citizens to band together against those trying to overtake us and show them it won't work here - we are not mindless idiots that depend on the government to defend us - we will defend ourselves too. It that means reporting that mideastern men are taking flying lessons to learn only how to take off - not how to land, then so be it.

38 posted on 07/16/2002 9:15:35 AM PDT by ClancyJ
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To: nanny
Have you seen the President's new plan for Homeland Security? It is comprehensive and is investigating all threats in this country. Just because we have not seen an action does not mean it is not being worked on.

Of course, any plan to protect this country will be an invasion to many here. They are too use to being totally safe in America. That is not the case any longer but they have not realized that yet.

The only way something would be reported is if it was suspicious. What makes them think the government wants to waste time looking at them if they are innocent when there are those out there trying to harm us?

Would they want to set old Joe up for search, mindlessly go through his computer nonsense, plow through the junk in his papers, eavesdrop on his inane conversations? What do they get from this other than death from boredom? Multiply that by hundreds of thousands of people. How much manpower does that take? How much would that cost? Surely, they have other things they would rather spend the money on. Meanwhile the terrorists are setting off their bombs.

39 posted on 07/16/2002 9:27:19 AM PDT by ClancyJ
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To: ClancyJ
There is nothing, nothing that should give the government the right, in a relatively free society, to encourage citizens to spy on their neighbors. This is just not, so not right.

I can believe 12, yes 12, impossible things before breakfast, but I do not for one moment believe this is being instituted solely to protect us from terrorists. If our government actually cared about terrorism they would be acting just a little like they were. Instead, we are being so politically correct, we can't protect ourselves. The government is doing just a few show and tell things to make us think they are doing something, but until they begin to profile as they should, close our borders, and stop the corruption in the visa program, there is no way they can justify this action.

40 posted on 07/16/2002 9:49:05 AM PDT by nanny
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