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Cheap Cig Buyers Beware (hysterical, threatening bleating from enraged tax-collector)
NY Post ^ | July 10, 2002 | Martha E. StarkRavingMad

Posted on 07/11/2002 1:13:11 PM PDT by dead

Edited on 05/26/2004 5:07:25 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

The Post's handy chart on where to buy cheap cigarettes was an invitation to break the law, but buyers beware ("Mike's in a rush for cig-tax hike," June 26).

The Department of Finance, which administers the cigarette tax, is serious about nailing tax cheats. And we're good at it, too - just ask the smugglers and tax-stamp counterfeiters we nabbed back in April, the result of two sting operations we coordinated with law-enforcement officials from the Carolinas all the way to New York.


(Excerpt) Read more at nypost.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events
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To: SauronOfMordor
There is no Republican Party in NYC. Bloomberg IS a Democrat. To a lesser extent, so is the anti-gun Rudy Giuliani. In NYC, moderate Democrats run as Republicans, because the Dem Party is completely under the control of the extreme Left

A NYC Republican is the equivalent of a Texas Democrat (with comfortable shoes).

61 posted on 07/11/2002 2:32:29 PM PDT by toupsie
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To: Freedom4US
Ten years ago, the Canadian Socialist government, in an proclaimed effort to save money spent on freebie health care, jacked up taxes on cigarettes to $4.00 a pack. There was an immediate explosion of smuggled American cigarettes from the US. After two years, it finally dawned on the Canadians that not only were they losing $4 BILLION in tax revenues yearly, the Mounties had to spend all it's time arresting every convenience store and gas station owner within 50 miles of the border, and all the major Canadian cigarette wholesalers were going broke. Naturally, the Health Nazies claimed that falling sales indicated that fewer people were smoking...
62 posted on 07/11/2002 2:33:43 PM PDT by jonascord
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To: Maceman
Yesmoke.com has free shipping and regardless of how many cartons you order, they only ship one carton in each plain bubble-pack envelope, which has the shape of a book. You can only order 5 cartons per order, but simply place multiple orders and the number is unlimited.
63 posted on 07/11/2002 2:36:38 PM PDT by Eagle9
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To: dead
How many people will the NYC jails hold at any one time?

This seems to me like it could cost NYC more than they can take in in taxes and penalties if everyone said give me jail time Martha-I'm not going to play your stupid tax game.
64 posted on 07/11/2002 2:40:46 PM PDT by chainsaw
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To: Freedom4US
The low level nazis are always the worst

To use a phrase that I first saw in a book by the great P.J.O'Rourke,

"The beauty of a well designed fascist state is that it ensures that every pissant has an anthill to piss from."(Or something very close to that,anyway. I'm too busy puffing away at the moment to go to the bookshelf and dig out the book.)

65 posted on 07/11/2002 2:49:29 PM PDT by sawsalimb
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To: RicocheT
Recall who he ran against...
66 posted on 07/11/2002 2:58:00 PM PDT by NativeNewYorker
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To: dighton
Her resume reads as if she never had a real job where she had to work and produce.
67 posted on 07/11/2002 3:11:43 PM PDT by maxwellp
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To: Dan from Michigan
INDIANA'S CIGARETTE TAX HIKE
40-cent jump drives Hoosiers to Kentucky
Stores, wholesalers wonder if shift will be long-term


By Ben Z. Hershberg
bhershberg@courier-journal.com
The Courier-Journal


John Schroeder, manager of Lambert's Distributors Inc., a cigarette wholesaler in New Albany, Ind., that also does business in Kentucky, said he has seen a big jump in his Kentucky business since Indiana's cigarette tax was raised.





Indiana's 40-cent cigarette tax increase, which took effect a week ago(7-1-02), already is driving many Hoosier smokers across the Ohio River for the lower prices in Louisville.

Kentucky's cigarette tax is 3 cents a pack -- the second-lowest in the nation and now 52.5 cents below Indiana's.

For a carton of cigarettes, that can mean a savings of more than $5. And Louisville merchants are reaping the benefits.

Carliss Culver, a clerk at Bank Street Liquors in the Portland neighborhood near the Sherman Minton Bridge to New Albany, Ind., said she has had 10 to 15 new customers a day buying cigarettes since the tax increase took effect July 1. Many have identified themselves as Hoosiers who are angry about the higher tax, Culver said.

Stacy Stallings, assistant manager of the Dairy Mart on 22nd Street and Portland Avenue, said her cigarette sales may have increased by 30 percent or more because of new customers from Indiana.

''They're all coming and complaining from Indiana about the tax increase,'' she said. ''They say it's crazy.''

Indiana retailers are hearing the same complaints.

Marilyn Cunningham, a clerk in the Dairy Mart at Main and West Sixth streets in New Albany, said her customers ''don't like it (the tax increase) too well.''

''They say that it's just too expensive,'' she said, and some have left the store without making a purchase.

Yesterday a carton of Kools at Stallings' Dairy Mart was selling for $23.89, compared with $26.84 at the Dairy Mart on Main Street in New Albany.

At the BP Tobacco Road store on Court Avenue in Jeffersonville, Ind., a carton of Marlboros was $30.99 -- exactly $8 higher than at the Kroger store on South Second Street in Old Louisville.

Walter Davis of New Albany, who was buying gas last week at the Tobacco Road store on Main Street in New Albany, said he will be among the Hoosiers heading to Louisville for lower prices.

''I think they're too high'' in Indiana, he said.

Merchants on both sides of the river say it's too early to know how much the tax difference will affect them.

But ''it will hurt bad,'' said Jody Pierce, who owns 13 Sav-A-Step Food Marts in Southern Indiana.

About a third of his stores' revenue is from cigarette sales, and he said he expects to lose about a quarter of that business. He also owns 13 stores in southern Louisville, but they are are too far from Indiana to benefit much, he said.

The 40-cent tax increase -- which took most prices in Indiana above $3 a pack -- was part of a bill to generate $600 million a year for Indiana's beleaguered budget and to provide property tax relief in light of a courtordered reassessment now under way.

Along Indiana's other state borders, the impact isn't likely to be as great because the tax differential isn't as big.

But there clearly is a big risk of lost sales for Southern Indiana's dealers, said state Rep. Bill Cochran, the New Albany Democrat who is chairman of the House budget subcommittee.

''It was one of the hardest things I ever did,'' he said of the cigarette tax increase, ''to put it in the budget and vote for it.''

But something had to be done to stem the tide of red ink threatening to overwhelm the budget, Cochran said.

Even with some sales lost to Kentucky, Cochran said, the tax increase should add at least $300 million annually to the state treasury.

Without the increase, Cochran said, even deeper cuts would have been made in education, health care and other basic social services.

''We had no other choice,'' Cochran said.

Tom Kaiser disagrees.

His family has run a retail tobacco store in New Albany since 1832 and a wholesale business since 1945. He thinks the legislature could have cut spending more, just as a private business would if its revenue fell short of expenses, Kaiser said.

So far, he said, he has not seen a decline in his wholesale business, but he expects to feel the impact in the next few weeks.

He hopes the business he does with Louisville retailers -- about 20 percent of his total -- will increase enough to blunt the Southern Indiana decline. And he thinks sales of some low-cost brands will rise considerably because of the tax increase, Kaiser said.

But he said state government ignored the concerns of the region's smokers and tobacco retailers because it views the area almost as though it were part of another state.

John Schroeder, manager of Lambert's Distributors Inc., another New Albany cigarette wholesaler, said he has noticed a significant increase in his Kentucky business. But he said it's too early to estimate how big the shift will be.

He also said the difference in price is big enough to encourage a black market in Hoosier sales of Kentucky cigarettes.

William Hoover, assistant special agent in charge of the Louisville office of the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, said at this point, cigarette bootlegging in the area ''is not a major concern for us.''

For his agency to get involved, Hoover said, an illegal sale would have to be substantial -- more than 60,000 cigarettes. The tax increase ''has just gone into effect,'' Hoover said, and ''we're not concerned at this time.''

Larry McKee, deputy commissioner of the Indiana Department of Revenue, also said his agency isn't worried at this point about a black market in cigarettes.

He said the department will monitor the amount of revenue generated by the new tax rate and will investigate if it falls well below projections.



68 posted on 07/11/2002 3:21:32 PM PDT by John W
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To: Lowelljr; gridlock
I thought the tax was about discouraging smoking, since it's dangerous and all. Turns out it's all about feeding the machine. Who knew!

Good point and rational there Gridlock. You bring out a very good point...

Oh yes!!! They want SMOKE FREE BUT THEY WANT OUR MONEY. THEY CAN'T HAVE BOTH, THE IDIOTS!


69 posted on 07/11/2002 4:30:10 PM PDT by SheLion
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To: dead
New York's Indian reservations should accept their share of the blame and pay cigarette taxes, as they do in Connecticut and other states.

SHE'S A LIAR!

70 posted on 07/11/2002 4:31:19 PM PDT by SheLion
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To: ozone1
over here

This dame is start raving mad, is she? Well, maybe she knows how WE feel when they shot the goose that laid the golden egg!

She's going to get a LOT madder, too! Because more and more smokers are finding cheaper routes to buy our LEGAL product. They all can go fork themselves, IMHO! heh!

71 posted on 07/11/2002 4:33:46 PM PDT by SheLion
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To: Movemout
Get a load of this one all you criminal smokers.

SORRY! I'M NOT A CRIMINAL SMOKER. I ROLL MY OWN. Perfectly legal. Tobacco and filtered tubes bought down town at local Smoke Shop. They haven't gotten their MITTS into THIS yet!

And if they even try, they will get a real blast from me and a bunch of us in the Republic State of Maine. You can COUNT on it! We are READY!

72 posted on 07/11/2002 4:36:47 PM PDT by SheLion
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To: RicocheT
Michael R. Bloomberg ran as a "Republican", but taxes like a Democrat and hires Klintoon reruns. Good luck NYC-the city will be wrecked by it's leaders rather than terrorists.

Ah, Yes..........BLOOMBERG:


73 posted on 07/11/2002 4:37:55 PM PDT by SheLion
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To: 07055
They can't know. It seems to me the only way you can get in trouble is if you bring a van load of cigarettes back from North Carolina and sell them to your friends. And one of your friends turns out to be a snitch or a "narc."

Truckers are already coming out of NC with bootleg cigarettes, bringing them up to the New England States. shhhhh

74 posted on 07/11/2002 4:39:24 PM PDT by SheLion
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To: D.P.Roberts
Anybody have an e-address for Martha? She might get a kick out of reading this thread.

BRING IT ON , PLEASE. I WANT IT!


75 posted on 07/11/2002 4:40:58 PM PDT by SheLion
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To: been_lurking
New Yorkers lost an estimated $40 million in uncollected tax revenue
That's my favorite line. How can you lose something you never had in the first place???

A fascinating use of the concept of "opportunity cost". Government "lost" billions in estate taxes when Los Angeles stubbornly refused to have a killer earthquake last week. Then, millions of citizens failed to heed President Bush's command to go out and shop in response to 9-11, "costing" billions more in state sales taxes. They're going to sue, I'm sure.

76 posted on 07/11/2002 4:42:40 PM PDT by Teacher317
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To: dead
Push the price higher than the market will support and the black market will prosper.

Ain't Capitalism a b*tch?!?

Go figure, tax Nazis...

77 posted on 07/11/2002 4:45:38 PM PDT by Caipirabob
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To: dead
The Department of Finance, which administers the cigarette tax, is serious about nailing tax cheats.

Make something as common as tobacco practically illegal and you'll tommy-guns soon

78 posted on 07/11/2002 4:52:03 PM PDT by Centurion2000
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To: SheLion
I am curious - what does a carton of Marlboro Red Box cost in your area?

Here in VA, it is $23.00

79 posted on 07/11/2002 4:56:04 PM PDT by patton
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To: SheLion
Truckers are already coming out of NC with bootleg cigarettes, bringing them up to the New England States. shhhhh

Please tell them I need Winston Lights100s, soft pack. I live on the Upper east Side, and I work at home so I can be absolutely flexible about pickup & delivery times.

80 posted on 07/11/2002 4:56:05 PM PDT by hellinahandcart
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