Posted on 07/09/2002 7:37:02 PM PDT by Clive
A world-record shot by a Canadian sniper detachment could never have been made with the ammunition they were issued when they left Edmonton last winter, the triggerman said in a recent interview.
The Canadian .50-calibre rounds have a maximum range of between 2,200 and 2,300 metres. The U.S. rounds, they discovered, "fly farther, faster," said Cpl. "Bill", a 26-year-old native of Fogo Island, Nfld.
The two-man Canadian team, coupled with American Sgt. Zevon Durham of Greenville, S.C., made the kill from 2,430 metres on the second shot.
The first blew a bag from the hand of their target, an al-Qaeda fighter walking on a road.
"He didn't even flinch," said Bill, who spoke to The Canadian Press on condition that his real name not be used.
"We made a correction and the next round hit exactly where we wanted it to. Well, a bit to the right."
The kill, one of more than 20 unofficially accredited to Canadian snipers during Operation Anaconda in Afghanistan's Shah-i-Kot Valley, beat the 35-year-old record of 2,500 yards, or 2,250 metres, set by U.S. Marine Gunnery Sgt. Carlos Hathcock in Duc Pho, South Vietnam.
Soldier of Fortune magazine estimated the number of kills made by the Canadians after talking to several U.S. soldiers in Kandahar for a cover story in its August edition.
The snipers themselves will not confirm the figure.
But judging from accounts given by Canadians involved in the first major coalition offensive of the Afghan war, the figure of at least 20 sounds conservative.
Outfitted with British desert fatigues and an array of equipment from all over the world, the five Canadians divided into two detachments earned the respect of their American brothers-in-arms after helping rescue dozens of paratroopers pinned down by enemy fire.
The five have been nominated for one of the highest awards given by the United States military - the Bronze Star, two of them with Vs for Valor, marking exceptional bravery.
Awarding of the American medal, which was to have been done at a ceremony along with other Anaconda veterans in Kandahar in April, has been delayed by Canadian protocol officials.
But more important to the Canadians are the gestures from their American brethren who, while nearly killing them several times over with friendly fire, owe many lives to their shooting skills.
"They trusted us to do our job, without question," said Master Cpl. "James", a 31-year-old native of Kingsville, Ont., who also asked that his identity not be revealed.
At one point during a series of battles, one of the Canadians was without his rifle. Enemy bullets were hitting the earth all around.
Mortars were dropping in front and behind them, some within 10 metres, bracketing their position and getting closer all the time.
"They really hammered us," said Bill.
He tried to get to their rifles but couldn't. Finally, an American sniper tossed him his rifle and said: "Here, you know how to use this better than I do."
They held off the enemy until darkness descended and they escaped.
"They were instrumental in helping us achieve our goals out there," said 1st Lieut. Justin Overbaugh, 25, of Missoula, Mont., the soldier who recommended Bill and James for Bronze Stars.
"They are professionals; they are very good at what they do; they train hard, they are very mature, they are tactically and technically proficient so when it came time to do business, they were on," he said.
"If they told me I was going out right now, I'd be begging, kicking, screaming, crying for them to come with us."
Bill and James said they pulled off several shots from 2,400 metres or more.
"Shots out that far are 60 per cent skill and 40 per cent luck, or vice versa," said Bill. "Usually, it takes two or three rounds, sometimes five.
"Normally, a sniper wouldn't take that many shots, but they were out so far we felt confident they couldn't tell where we were."
At daybreak one morning, the two Canadians were set up overlooking a compound when al-Qaeda fighters started "pouring out of buildings like ants."
Bill started shooting while James called in a mortar attack, followed by B-52, F-16 and Apache helicopter strikes.
In a separate incident, Bill and James found themselves looking up at a large dark object screaming out of the sky directly above them.
It was a 220-kilogram American bomb.
"We hit the deck and covered our heads with our hands," said James.
The bomb landed 30 metres away, nose in, and never went off.
Bill and James looked at each other in disbelief.
"By the grace of God, it was a dud," said Bill. "It landed 15 metres from the B company (U.S. 101st Airborne Division) trenches. A guy got up, walked out of the trench and kicked the thing."
On another occasion, an Apache fired a missile right over their heads. It slammed into a rock wall 200 metres behind them. The snipers took it all in stride.
"Unless you have walked in their shoes or been part of a Special Forces unit, you cannot understand the closeness in proximity that a sniper is to the enemy," said Capt. Paul Madej, Operation Enduring Freedom chaplain, who debriefed the Canadians.
"The Canadian snipers are professional, well-trained soldiers who walk into harm's way and fulfilled their mission. They represent the best and they have our respect."
Snipers did not keep score to be the best and I doubt if any would claim to be the best. Hatlcock ,in his Viet Nam element, may have been the best there but he, compared to say Francis Pegahmagabow ,an Native from Ontario with 378 or Henry Norwest from Saskatchewan with 115 ,was no better than they in theirs. Theirs being mud and shell holes of WW1 with a good chance of being shot at in return. Other than WW2 what is known about Lyudmila Pavlichenko and her 309 kills? She ,in her own environment, may well have been the best.
http://www.snipercentral.com/snipers.htm
At least these guys didn't tell the media their names were Terrence and Philip.
Hold down the fort Carlos. We're coming.
Garde la Foi, mes amis! Nous nous sommes les sauveurs de la République! Maintenant et Toujours!
(Keep the Faith, my friends! We are the saviors of the Republic! Now and Forever!)
LonePalm, le Républicain du verre cassé (The Broken Glass Republican)
To make a long story short, the results were that the Germans were the most accurate, the Americans next, then the British, Japanese then the Russians. He commented specifically about Saburo Sakai and his supposed 61 kills. He basically said no one who has checked really believes that.
He also commented that he didn't think any of them were purposely lying only doing a sloppy job of verification with one exception. The Russian claims had no relationship at all to reality. He said they were basically just made up.
I suspect the same would be true of their sniper claims
So we'll forget about Lyudmila, justified or not, and use Matthias Hetzenauer(345) or Heinz Thorvald (300). Perhaps Sepp Allerberger(257),Gefreiter Meyer(180) or Oleh Dir (120). All good German snipers. Scores weren't my point. All snipers dealt with environment. Each, if he lived , used it to his advantage. As good as Hatcock was in hs environment the others , German in the case of WW2 , were as good in theirs. They lived. Would Hatcock have survived on the fields of Flanders or the rubble of Stalingrad ? Or our good Germans the jungles of Asia? We'll never know . There is no best.
I read the book, about Carlos Hathcock, I think it was titled "Marine Sniper" and his accomplishments were spectacular. I recall one incident in which he and his spotter just about wiped out an NVA company. (His spotter was using an M14 and may have got more than Hathcock.) I don't think any of these were counted as confirmed kills.
Shooting Russians in the rubble of a burned out city is different than stalking individuals in the jungle. Who knows? I do know I wouldn't want any of them after me.
Not to bust your bubble, but Gunny's first shot hit the bicycle, the second shot nabbed the target.
Sometimes I wonder if that hasn't been the objective of the MSM and the gun-grabbers all along.
but with an non-accurazied Ma-duce at that range, still the best 2 shot group I have heard of.
It's d@mned good!, no doubt!
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.