Posted on 07/05/2002 5:34:43 PM PDT by Pokey78
Senator Pardek: I gotta laugh at these hucksters like Atkins.7
Zon: Just why do you think Atkins is a huckster and is it a primary point of his or some tangential point he made that you arrived at your "huckster" conclusion? 284
Senator Pardek: Well, it's just from personal experience.286
Zon: What was it about your personal experience that you concluded that Atkins is a huckster? Also, do you conclude that other products and services that you try out but don't meet your needs are created by hucksters?
I'm surrounded by misrepresenting crackpots - I surrender! Tomorrow's breakfast shall consist of a dozen fried eggs with a lbs. of butter.
Obfuscation is not becoming of you. I'll ask again: What was it about your personal experience that you concluded that Atkins is a huckster? Also, do you conclude that other products and services that you try out but don't meet your needs are created by hucksters?
Waaahhh - and you're a big dummyhead! ;)
Get in the spirit and add the bacon and the Mayo and while you are at it drench it in hollandaise
Freudian slip?
Senator Pardek: Well, it's just from personal experience.286
Zon: What was it about your personal experience that you concluded that Atkins is a huckster? Also, do you conclude that other products and services that you try out but don't meet your needs are created by hucksters?
Anu doctor who places exercise over diet when it comes to weight loss is a quack - reminiscent of 19th century snake-oil salesmen.
How does that relate to your personal experience causing you to claim that Atkins is a Huckster?
BTW, since you claim Atkins is a huckster I assume that ( even though you're wrong about Dr. Atkins as proven by the market feedback) you have nailed almost all politicians and bureaucrats by acknowledging correctly that they are frauds. That is, you may disagree with Dr. Atkins and to remain at least a modicum of consistency on a scale of who's work harms who more it's helpful if you'd state where on the scale of charlatans, hucksters, cheats and frauds you place politicians and bureaucrats in general. I apologize in advance if this is over your head; I though it useful to the reader in gauging your ability, or lack thereof, to reason.
LOL - it's crackpots like you who have kept me out of the Libertarian Party. "market feedback" - give me a break. Is Oprah a relationship guru? Is Snoop Doggy Dog a great musician?
Atkins is a capitalist who makes money off of ignorant folks like you, without fraud or force. I love him for that.
Our American diet has ALWAYS been the type of diet you advocate. 15 years is the time we have advocated less meat.
If you want to use historical guidelines, then we in the US have been on your type of diet almost our whole history.
Japan is the country that has the most longevity, the most healthy people in the world. That is FACT.
When Japanese Americans start to eat our high fat/high protein diet, they become like us... unhealthy.
BTW, the points I mentioned above are SCIENTIFIC FACT, if you wish to argue them, that is your perogative, yet it is STILL FACT.
People on the Japanese diet are the healthiest people in the world, THAT IS FACT.
As far as Eskimos being tainted by our dietary choices, I just dont buy it.
I will say again, the unhealthy American diet has remained UNCHANGED throughout history except for a decade when we chose to be more like new age freaks. You can show me studies that are partisan to your point of view but I will maintain that Japan is the HEALTHIEST country in the world. Period. EVERY study confirms this.
I choose to emulate the Asian model, you do not. Geez, why dont you tell your average asian(who is almosy NEVER overweight.) to eat cheese burgers without the bun. They would laugh in your face. Of course, you waould say that if they are American-Asians(I hate hyphens but they are neccesary in this case.) that they are eating to many buns.
I question the whole blasted premise! Lets have two months and we can all post our pictures online. Here is a prediction, I will post and the pro-atkins people will not, lets put our money where our mouth is.
I have posted about all the people who subcribe to my method and truth be told you all have ignored HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of people. The anecdotal evidence of three of you does not even come CLOSE to repudiating my claim.
I put my money where my mouth is, I am bookmarking this thread and I want to SEE for myself the results. I am giving you all two months, so you SHOULD be able to make my claim.
You all know where I stand so it should not ne a problem. Personally, I think after two months, all of you Atkins fans will die off anyway but prove me wrong!
Is that GOOD enough for ya? If my diet is so dangerous, you have NOTHING to worry about! I will answer ALL freep mail responses to this and I will not forget,
You will ALL be gone after a year, trust me. :D
it's crackpots like you who have kept me out of the Libertarian Party.
Your frequent ad hominems show your true colors and reflects your incompetence. BTW, I'm not a Libertarian.
Senator Pardek: Anu doctor who places exercise over diet when it comes to weight loss is a quack - reminiscent of 19th century snake-oil salesmen.306
I'll ask again: How does that relate to your personal experience causing you to claim that Atkins is a Huckster?
One does not judge a diet by WHO uses it but by the merits of the diet. I know of none who are on Weight Watchers or The Zone, however, that does not mean they are bad diets. If you are going to judge a diet on THIS bogus standard you have erected, then you have to HAIL the Atkins diet because Arnold Schwarzenegger is on it and writes about it in his book.
That's right. Also, you can usually tell whether a person is sincere and honest or a blowhard by whether or not they acknowledge and then correct their errors.
"market feedback" - give me a break. Is Oprah a relationship guru? Is Snoop Doggy Dog a great musician?
The consensus in the market that purchased Dr. Atkins Diet Revolution is that the book helped them lose weight. Proven product and effective marketing -- not some external authority proclaiming from on high -- is what makes a product succeed. Especially true when the product flies in the face of the status quo, as Dr. Atkins' did.
Senator Pardek: I gotta laugh at these hucksters like Atkins.7
What do you say about consistency, Senator?
since you claim Atkins is a huckster I assume that... you have nailed almost all politicians and bureaucrats by acknowledging correctly that they are frauds. That is, you may disagree with Dr. Atkins and to remain at least a modicum of consistency on a scale of who's work harms who more it's helpful if you'd state where on the scale of charlatans, hucksters, cheats and frauds you place politicians and bureaucrats in general. I apologize in advance if this is over your head; I thought it useful to the reader in gauging your ability, or lack thereof, to reason. 308 [Emphasis added.]
It strikes me that hucksterism and profiteering are more in the "low-fat" market than in Dr. Atkins' books. The Low-Fat people are willing to put you on one of several programs in which they charge you for their diet advice, sell you specialized (and required) 'low-fat' food of their own brand at exhorbitant prices, and provide (at additional cost) accessories to help you manage your calorie and fat intake.
Atkins, on the other hand, sells you a book... a fairly low cost book... that shows you how to eat and lose weight using readily available foods you buy from the supermarket in a competative market. He doesn't provide "Dr. Atkins' Certified Low Carbohydrate Pasta" for people who want to have their cake and eat it, too. He teaches you to read labels and look for the total Carbohydrate per serving listed... and to make your decision on that.
Hucksterism is province of the MicroDiet, the Jenny Craig Weight Loss System, the Richard Simmons deal a meal cards, and a host of others who tie into the desperation of people who are trying to lose weight on the low-fat, low calorie bandwagon that just leads them to more boom-bust yo-yo dieting because of the basic flaw in their approach.
Do you see Dr. Atkins appearing on TV to promote his "weight loss" centers where you pay a weekly fee to get weighed and hear a rah-rah lecture? No? I thought not.
Senator Pardek, I don't find your recommendation here to be much outside of what I would expect to be healthy for most people. The carb level you propose is significantly lower than most of the mainstream dogma has promoted over the past decade or two, and I find it to be reasonable, assuming you are talking about complex carbs. I would agree that exercise is an extremely important part of the equation and that weight training is way under-emphasized among most health "experts."
What I take issue with is the absolute certainty with which you state your superior "knowledge," and that you state it with zero qualifications. Furthermore, you make no exceptions for people with disturbed carbohydrate metabolism and seem to suggest that your recommendations will work for everybody, regardless of their condition.
Your pro athlete challenge is not only silly, it is logically ignorant. When discussions like this arise, they are generally talking about either average people or those who are in a state of obesity and need to lose weight. Professional athletes are neither and would make a horrible representative sample upon which to make conclusions for all of us. Furthermore, the article here has pointed out that we are beginning to see the metadata with respect to high carbohydrate diets and the results are not pretty - hence the actual title. You take a much more moderate approach than the silly "eat all the carbs you want and restrict your fat to near zero" approach that we have seen over the years. While I would call this approach more moderate, the mainstream would not. In fact, your 30% carbs is lower than that proposed by Dr. Sears in his Zone diet I believe. So by mainstream standards, your diet can easily be characterized as "weird" itself.
I would never state as fact that any one particular diet makes sense for everybody, as diet is a very individualized thing. I know people who can thrive on a high carbohydrate diet and I know people who can't (myself included), regardless of whether exercise is involved or not. Once again, I view your recommendations as quite low and reasonable for most people, but possibly not sufficiently low enough for many.
Atkins, or other low carb diets, often help to correct desensitize insulin receptors, which allows people to slowly resume eating a higher level of carbs. Many of your statements continue to be quite hyperbolic, misleading and utterly misleading with respect to Dr. Atkins' recommendations and I believe you know this. Why you feel it necessary to attack something that many have found to be very helpful with the harshness of a religious zealot is beyond me, but I suspect most reading your posts have already determined that you are less interested in discovering truth, educating folks, or answering questions and are more intersted in convincing people that Atkins is the Devil incarnate. Again, I have no idea why, but your intellectual dishonesty and dogmatic approach to the whole debate is quite tiring.
Finally, as I've seen you do with my previous posts, this article, responses to others on this thread and most clearly throughout the thread the actual Atkins protocol itself, I am not sure that you will bother to read what I've said, before responding once again with your unqualified and unsubstatiated statements of certain facts. It that is the case, I will end the discussion because you are clearly not interested in having one.
But let me inject a few hard numbers into the discussion. I hereby ask everyone who has an opinion or personal experience with low-carb to post their blood numbers too, if you have them handy. Also please mention your ethnic mix and blood type.
My ancestry is English, Irish, Polish, & Lithuanian. Blood type O+ (IIRC).
JennyP's blood cholesterol since going on a low-carb diet
Date Mos.
into dietWeight BMI Total HDL LDL Total/HDL Triglycerides 10/20/99 0 163 24.8 unknown - wish I had tested beforehand 4/21/00 6 147 22.3 244 76 158 3.2 48 3/20/01 17 156 23.7 241 74 149 3.3 90 5/15/02 31 154 23.4 219 78 128 2.8 66 After losing 1 lb per week, I plateaued at 16 lbs below starting weight. Then I drifted upwards over the next year to around 8 lbs below starting weight. In the last couple months I cut out ice cream for dessert (we couldn't resist giving ourselves bigger & bigger portions over the months!) & my weight is starting to creep downward again. I also switched to a canola-based margarine, and I suspect that's why my total cholesterol number is coming down.
Senator Pardek is like a real Senator. They like to proclaim that such and such is a huckster (see post #7) or harming people or wrong and then they propose to solve the problem. The Senators, like other members of congress manufacture problems so they can solve them and thus justify their jobs and unearned paychecks. They like to proclaim, "I'll use the government to compassionately protect the little guy." In reality, they create problems that need not exist.
Politicians and bureaucrats create and implement roughly 3,000 new laws and regulations each year. That number increases on average from one year to the next. Each year they tell us that the new laws are "must-have laws" that people and society can't prosper without. They do that, so they imply, to keep people from running society headlong into destruction.
Yet how is it that citizens and the society they make up has managed to not only survive but increase prosperity when they didn't have this year's 3,000 new laws last year or for decades before? Likewise, how did citizens increase prosperity for decades prior to last year's 3,000 new must-have laws? And they do that despite a mountain of laws that they've already been saddled/burdened with. Thirty new laws a year is probably overkill. But 3,000 is insane.
During Clintons eight years in the White House alone, there were 25,000 new laws and regulations created. How many of those laws did you break? With that many laws piled on top of the ones that already existed virtually every citizen is a criminal.
However, if in a day it was physically possible to apprehended even one quarter of those lawbreakers society would come to a screeching halt. Yet with all these supposed criminals on the lose prosperity continues to increase.
Seems obvious that lobbyists and special interest groups seeking to buy access to government power in order to gain unfair competitive advantages would be non existent if politicians weren't putting government power up for sale in the first place. They sell the "little guys" snake oil (for example, a bogus/unhealthy dietary guide) while they sell access to government power to their big money donors/supporters.
It strikes me that hucksterism and profiteering are more in the "low-fat" market than in Dr. Atkins' books.
Yes, they go-along to get-along,,,, with the status quo. A ready made market awaits them. Unlike Dr. Atkins Diet Revolution that was a huge success while staring down the status quo.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.