What if It's All Been a Big Fat Lie?

The New York Times Magazine ^ | 07/07/2002 | GARY TAUBES

[ForOurFuture]

Why does everything have to be so damn complicated? Eat protein and carbohydrates and fat from all the food groups in appropriate moderation, then excercise. No research, no government guidelines, no "name" diets, no blaming food companies. Eating food should not be this hard.

[Oregon W.oman]

Actually, whether or not they counted calories or grams does not change anything concerning the bulk of my post. The participants all lost weight - which is not surprising on a 6 week controlled 1000 calorie per day diet. (The lower carb group actually did lose 1.4 pounds more which is pretty good in my book.)But 7 to 9 pounds is only a small portion of the weight these 'obese' people in the study have to lose. If you are very overweight, the first 5 to 10 pounds usually comes off pretty easily but then you start the long, hard 'pound at a time' process. These people will leave the hospital and have to live real lives.

Ultra low calorie diets can work in the short run but not in the long run. Severe calorie restriction alters metabolism. In addition, eating a diet higher in carbohydrates will make them hungrier all the time..it biochemically sets you up for cravings. These are the reasons why so many people start diets but never finish them or, if they do reach their goal, they gain it back - plus more.

Also notice that the study says that fasting glucose, insulin, cholesterol and triglicerides all decreased significantly on their version of the lower carb diet which substantiates claims that a diet lower in carbs (and therefore higher in protein and fat) IS healthy... including 'heart' healthy.

[Arioch7]

FoF agreed! LOL!

One anecdotal story does not make it true, DarlinLaurie. If you wish for an anecdote, I am full of energy always and I do not eat a low carb diet. I have been saying that different diets fit different training routines and that form follows function.

Carbs are the bodies primary source for energy, that statement is scientifically accurate and no amount of debate can make it false.

I have stated that processed flour and sugar is bad. I have stated that most every long distance runner carbo loads. Just because one was found, does not make my statement invalid.

I was a fat kid all through my life until I turned 16. The method I used to lose the weight was limiting my caloric intake and exercise. At the time I did not know about dietary specifics, I just did it with a good old calorie counter.

Carbs are converted to energy much easier then protein. Protein is an inefficent energy source is all I am saying. Fat is calorically dense and that is why eating to much of it might make you fat. It has twice the calories of protein and carbs.

Diabetes and all the problems associated with Americans are because of too much processed sugar and sedentary lifestyles. I guess I am one of the few "Bad guys" on this thread and damn it, its fun! ;)

[Oregon W.oman]

I don't think you are a 'bad guy' at all - and it has been fun! Obviously the way you eat suits you well.

If someone had told me 6 years ago that I was going to be thin again eating a diet other than the sacred 'low fat' diet, I would have told them they were crazy. Of course by then, I never thought I'd be thin again PERIOD. Low Carb eating was my last resort.

I just want to make sure that people who are struggling with their weight on a low fat diet and still finding themselves heavier every year know there is another alternative that is healthy and may be the answer for them. My advice (for what it's worth) is to do your homework - seriously look into it and make up your own mind.

[Arioch7]

Shssh! I like my black hat!

I was wondering if you could tell me what is the ratio of your carb/protein/fat mix.

I noticed that a few people that were disagreeing with me had ratios that were pretty close to my own and I am curious to know what the average ratio is after the induction phase... did I say that right?

[MArdee]

But not low carb enough for Atkins. Atkins induction level is UNDER TWENTY or it doesn't work. Carb levels that high are only for the maintence level or OWL after the bulk of weight loss has been acheived. Many cannot even abide levels that high on Maintenence without gaining weight again.

Do you honestly believe that a mere 17.5 grams of additional carbohydrates (the amount found in a 6 oz. glass of grapefruit juice) can cause such metabolic havoc as to completely halt fat burning?? Do you have any scientific proof to support this assertion (I'm asking because you seem big on studies)?

And you questioned my intelligence...

[MArdee]

I guess they should have checked the Atkins book before they did a study on it, huh?

Were does it say that they were doing a study on the Atkins Diet??

[Dana113]

Do you honestly believe that a mere 17.5 grams of additional carbohydrates (the amount found in a 6 oz. glass of grapefruit juice) can cause such metabolic havoc as to completely halt fat burning?? Do you have any scientific proof to support this assertion (I'm asking because you seem big on studies)?

Do you think that Atkins requires that carbs be below 20 grams a day because he pulled that number out of a hat? You can see for yourself that 37 grams a day does not work. You provided the study yourself!

[Washington-Husky]

'Ping'

[Tribune7]

Bump for later

[MArdee]

Do you think that Atkins requires that carbs be below 20 grams a day because he pulled that number out of a hat?

Yeah, basically.

You can see for yourself that 37 grams a day does not work. You provided the study yourself!

How doesn't it work?? The subjects in the 15% carbohydrate group lost 8.9 kg. (19.5 lbs.).

[Dana113]

Were does it say that they were doing a study on the Atkins Diet??

lol! So when you said earlier:

"Well, you guessed wrong because, unlike you, I've read all relevant studies regarding this topic. Apparently, you spend all your time at pro low-carb sites, and it shows.

Here's another study you've probably never read: Similar weight loss with low- or high-carbohydrate diets."

you didn't mean Atkins? Did you notice that the topic at hand *IS* Atkins? If you aren't talking about Atkins then exactly WHICH low carb diet are you talking about?

[Dana113]

Hey Arioch, my ratio is 60/30/10 fat/protein/carbs and that is what works best for me. If I ate the carbs that you did, I would be passed out on the floor with low blood sugar and fatter than hell. Your diet works for you, though, and that is what you should stick with. This is what works wonderfully well for me. The nice thing about your diet is that you don't eat junk food.

[Dana113]

How doesn't it work?? The subjects in the 15% carbohydrate group lost 8.9 kg. (19.5 lbs.).

You didn't answer my question. WHICH low carb diet ARE you talking about if not Atkins? In the other studies, the low carb participants lost MORE than their low fat counterparts on lower levels of carbs.

Also, I would like to see your response to Oregonwomans latest post about your study. Can you please answer?

Didn't you used to be MsArdee on the Firm forum?

[Senator Pardek]

For folks like Senator Pardek, it is much easier to spout off about will power or merely repeat the dogma that is being challenged as the unquestionable truth, than to actually examine the logic, science or even personal experiences of people posting here. His imagined "pro athlete" (which is most certainly a horrible basis for figuring out what makes sense for the rest of us) is all he needs to justify ignoring the actual debate and continuing to believe dogma.

LOL - nice rant - still waiting for proof of all the pro athletes who use that weird diet.

If your diet is based on losing weight, go Atkins - if it's based on becoming healthy - exercise, weight train, and eat 30% carbs!

[Dana113]

I have stated that processed flour and sugar is bad. I have stated that most every long distance runner carbo loads. Just because one was found, does not make my statement invalid.

No, many don't load, because many know better and they know that carb loading is a myth because you run out of glycogen in 20 minutes anyway.

Here is a study that was done on this very issue:

Enhanced Endurance in Trained Cyclists During Moderate Intensity Exercise Following 2 Weeks Adaptation to a High Fat Diet Reference: Lambert, E.V., Speechly, D.P., Dennis, S.C., et al.,

"Enhanced Endurance in Trained Cyclists During Moderate Intensity Exercise Following 2 Weeks Adaptation to a High Fat Diet," European Journal of Applied Physiology and Occupational Physiology, 69(4), 1994, pages 287-293.

Summary: This study sought to compare the effects of two weeks of a high-fat, low-carbohydrate diet (70% fat, 23% protein and 7% carbohydrate) with two weeks of a high-carbohydrate, low-fat diet (74% carbohydrate, 14% protein and 12% fat) on exercise performance. Five trained cyclists were required to perform a host of cycle tests at various intensities and lengths of time. Based on the results of these tests, exercise time to exhaustion during high intensity exercise was not significantly different between groups. However, when comparing the different diet groups’ performance during moderate intensity exercise, time to exhaustion was significantly longer after subjects followed the high-fat diet, despite starting off with lower muscle glycogen content (stored glucose). Subjects in the high-fat group also had a lower respiratory quotient, indicating that they were burning fat for fuel in place of carbohydrate. Subjects were able to pedal nearly 40 minutes longer than individuals eating a standard high-carbohydrate diet.

[Arioch7]

My... I must say that I am stunned by the ratio but hey, I am not judgemental.

I have been slacking in my diet but I would describe it as way too much food of every stripe. Pizza's, pasta and beer. I know its not good but I like a steak as much as the next person. :D

I did mention that my fat intake was to low when I was doing heavy lifting and I had some problems but I never got up to 60%. When I am running, and training for martial arts while doing moderate weight lifting, I have to have carbs.

I also mentioned that all THREE macronutrients are important and although I disagree with your diet, it is good to know that you are not getting to much protein. The body can only handle so much at one time, which is why strength athletes eat 5-6 times a day. It allows people such as myself to get enough protein without overindulging.

If I might enquire further, what sources of food are you getting your fat from? I like nuts and olive oil for my fat sources but I have to admit, I do not know what the Atkins diet suggests for fat sources.

[Dana113]

If your diet is based on losing weight, go Atkins - if it's based on becoming healthy - exercise, weight train, and eat 30% carbs!

One size fits all? I would be in throes of hypoglycemia - and FAT - if I had a diet that high in carbs. Those are excessive carbs for those who have had weight problems/diabetes II/low blood sugar. That might work for you, but it doesn't work for many. And I have acheived optimal health [as have the people in the studies I have posted] on my low carb/high fat diet.

I know it makes people FURIOUS but low fat/high carb diets do not work for many people as the article above indicates and is not the be-all and end-all that people falsely purport.

[Senator Pardek]

I know it makes people FURIOUS but low fat/high carb diets...

LOL - you're picking up where you left off last night - I'm not advocating a high-carb diet, but a high protein one!

[Paulus Invictus]

Stop already! I gained 10 pounds reading these long conjectures! I have a good friend that swore by the Adkins diet and his bad cholesterol went through the roof and now he's got heart problems. He now swears at the Adkins diet. Eat right, exercise and then die!