Posted on 07/04/2002 6:16:32 AM PDT by B. A. Conservative
It is beyond challenge that most, if not all, of the problems America faces today originate in Washington. It is fallacious reasoning to suggest that the problem lies with the people of the United States. Our government is a republic. Our republic is predicated on the theory that those elected to public office have intellectual competence, educational skills or experience that exceeds that of the electorate and that those elected public leaders will do what is right for the country even in opposition to commonly perceived public opinion. During most of the past century, the political class has demonstrably failed to lead, but have instead become political prostitutes selling laws and benefits in exchange for votes transforming our Constitutional republic into a tyrannical mob-rule democracy destined for bankruptcy. Non-producing parasites now use the Democratic Party to prey on their neighbors, the still producing members of our country.
Under our Constitution, the power of the United States resides in We the people. For too long, we have allowed that power to be delegated or sold by the prostitutes in both political parties, primarily those in Washington. Clearly, ours has become a top>down government. As one voice among We the people, I think it is time to withhold the delegation of that power by only delegating it to selected politicians and then only with strings attached. FreeRepublic is a much larger segment of We the people, with a much larger voice. We at FreeRepublic are the roots of the grassroots. Newcomers and some that have been frequenting this site for years may deny that Bill Clinton was impeached by the House of Representatives because of the discussions that took place on this web site. They are wrong. Our voice is loud and it is heard in the Halls of Congress and in the Whitehouse. The stain that will be remembered in history is not the stain on Monica's dress; it is the stain of Impeachment. And that stain came from the computer ink that spilled from the hearts of Freepers determined to see justice done. We at FreeRepublic are the roots of the grassroots. The buck starts here.
There has been a great deal of discussion on FreeRepublic lately about what role we should play in this fall's election and that we should cut Bush and the Republicans some slack. Variations of this theme have been discussed on other threads: "THAT which you believe"---"An open letter to Republicans" by redrock. I particularly like the comments by DoughtyOne and "Move the RINOs and we move the party. I really think it's that simple," by NickDanger.
Ronald Reagan won two landslide elections by telling Americans he was going to cut the government in Washington down to size. The Contract with America gave the Republicans control of both houses of Congress for the first time in roughly thirty years. Prior to the Contract with America Republicans only had control of even one house in Congress one other time in 70 years. The lesson that Republicans seem to have difficulty in learning is that the people are conservative and when presented a conservative agenda they will vote for it. And conversely, when pandering is all that is offered, the public prefers the real prostitutes every time. I have a solution to this problem. I call it the
I am not giving my vote to anybody in November. I have decided to auction my vote in this fall's Congressional elections. Politicians are going to have to bid for my vote. I have decided not to exclude any particular politicians or parties from the bidding. And I have decided to attach some rules to the bidding itself:
Minimum Bid:
This is only the Minimum. There are a number of suggested options that politicians could add now or that we will add in future contracts for future elections.
Suggested Options:
Most of these problems would eventually be solved by Term Limits. I think the Term Limits Amendment should be saved as part of the ultimate threat packaged as a part of a package to be presented under Article V to a Constitutional Convention. It takes time to put together sufficient public arousal and support to apply the kind of pressure that we may need to bring to bear on people who are used to exerting power rather than being subjected to it.
You won't get him elected in Georgia either...
To: UnBlinkingEye
"...Defeating or splitting the Republican Party is a no win situation. Just gives us more Clintons, Torricellis, McKinneys, Davises, etc. No thanks."
# 163 by Jim Robinson
Perot gained a lot of votes when he ran for office. President Bush barely lost. By your way of thinking, Clinton's defeat of President Bush in 1992 was a major catastrophe.
I don't agree.
Bush's lying about a hold on tax increases, Perot's strong conservative policies, and the loss of the Presidency are the reason that the Contract with America was drafted. The conservative promises of the Contract with America are the reason that Republicans won control of Congress in 1994.
Being President is nice, but having control of Congress is much more important than holding the Presidency.
You are right, I am only thinking in terms of a conservative third party, as so many on this forum are. That I think is will only assure a democrat being elected to any office he/she is running for, and that is unacceptable to me.
OTOH what you are suggesting is intriguing. Anything that defeats Socialist rats is a good thing!
To: exodus
"...it's a proven mathematical fact that a vote for a marginal third party counts as one less vote for the Republican (assuming you are a conservative to begin with) which equates to a one vote plus in favor of the Democrat in the race. Vote third party. A Democrat will thank you.
# 167 by Jim Robinson
That's the reason Republicans will pay attention.
If I vote for you no matter what you do, why should I be factored into your plans?
You need the vote of that Democrat over there, because it's an even stronger mathmatical fact that a Democrat voting for a Republican is the equivalent of gaining TWO votes, because your opponent lost the "guaranteed" vote he was counting on.
A vote for a conservative third party candidate draws attention, and will be factored into the next election plan.
Would you expound on what you consider "brute force and bludgeoning"?
But the reality of our current situation is that the vast majority of the voters are gathered in the center of the political spectrum, and that's the kind of government that Americans have voted into place the last several elections.
The far reaches of both ideologies...right and left...are trying to control America's political future by resorting to what could only be called extortion: "do things my way, or I'll take my vote away and guarantee a victory for the other side".
Bill Clinton knew this, and kept moving more and more to the center, until the remains of the Reagan Revolution became political pariahs (see Gingrich, Newt), and unable to summon up sufficient cojones to boot a president who lied under oath on satellite television to a significant part of the civilized world, out of office, fearing the fact that it would make them look worse in the eyes of an electorate that basically didn't give a damn about the stain on the dress, or the nation.
People who didn't really like politics but voted nevertheless (and that would be the vast majority of the American voter), liked the fact that the stock market was kicking ass, and that the president was "doing a real good job"--most of them thinking that faced with a similar question, they would answered the same way Bill did--, so they shifted to Bill.
The GOP has a choice, swinging to the far right, and watch the undecided voter and even some of the center-right swing to Gore, or go get them, and bring them back.
Just my opinion mind you, but if I was running the GOP, I would be taking a long, hard look at where the future of the party was, and trying to assess the journey there. That assessment would tell me that my base was shrinking, while theirs was expanding. That's why I don't think that the far right vote is as important right now as the independent/undecided/center-right/center-left vote.
Now, that's politics, and that's reality.
To: exodus
A third party conservative cannot win at this time, thus the democrats would win! I once voted for Buchanan in the primary, but he didn't get anywhere. I learned my lesson, the RATs are the real enemy of this country, and defeating them is the most important thing in my opinion. The likes of Hillary Clinton in the White House is the worse horror I can imagine, and those who think voting for a third party would not help her are not paying attention. But thanks for the post anyway.
# 177 by ladyinred
You voted for Buchanan in the primary? How did that hurt any Republican candidate?
I voted for Keyes in the primaries, and was told that I was jeopardizing the candidacy of Bush, and thus helping the Democrats. That makes no sense at all.
Bill Clinton in the White House gave us control of the Congress. That was a trade well worth making.
So we must "understand" when the Republican leadership passes up a good conservative candidate because he's not liberal enough to win a "liberal" State.
Did you notice that in some of those liberal States, the voters put in a guy who's more conservative than the Democratic candidate? The guy we call a "Rino?"
Maybe if the voters had a choice between the liberal Democrat and someone who wasn't a third party man, like, maybe, a conservative Republican, the State wouldn't be "known" as liberal any more.
To: exodus
That is what primaries are for right?
# 179 by Texasforever
Yes, that's exactly what the primaries are for.
However, when the Republican leadership promotes the candidacy of a liberal because that liberal just happens to call himself a Republican, they betray the principles Republicans claim to represent.
"You will never get Bob Barr elected in New York..."
To: Texasforever
You won't get him elected in Georgia either...
# 181 by mac_truck
LOL, mac_truck.
Baloney it is the job of the Republican leadership to get Republicans elected. It is the voter’s job to elect them. It does no good for the leadership to promote a conservative fire-breather if they know from history that person cannot be elected in the district in question. If the primary voters wish, they can vote in the fire-breather and hope for the best. History shows that there is very little chance of that. You keep brining up the 1994 elections. Do you think that every republican in that class was a conservative? Heck no.
Voting for a third party candidate works.
Thanks for that, I think you've finally explained your postition clearly. In 1992 we elected the most vile and disgusting human being ever to wear the mantle of president. In fact, it was that very fact that called so many of us on FR together. It was perhaps one of the worst eight years this country has ever suffered under a president.
Yet you claim that it was "good" because it sent some sort of third party message. I guess it was good for you, as it served your self-interest. For the country, I'd beg to differ.....
If I vote for a Republican as the lesser of two evils, they'll point to my vote as an expression of confidence in their socialist policies.
If I stay home, and don't vote at all, they'll use statistics to decide why I didn't vote this time, and they'll bend those statistics to mean whatever is convenient for their purposes.
I want a conservative, so I'll vote 3rd party. When I vote for a conservative, even a 3rd party conservative, THERE IS NO QUESTION what it takes to win my vote. I want a conservative, and I won't accept anything less.
Republicans will point to my vote as the direction they need to go in order to gain my support. Democrats themselves will move to the right, as Clinton did in 1992, in an attempt to show me that they believe, just as I do, in freedom."
Right on bro. If anyone worries about wasting thier vote, just remember that your vote doesn't really count anyway since they can not count accurate to one vote, and don't forget that your vote is cancelled out by democrats who register their cats and dogs to vote. Protest votes do count, and if you are really serious about affecting the system, don't forget that money can buy way more votes than the one you are alloted by law.
Wait a second, I thought you were trumpeting third parties, earlier, now you voted for Keyes in 2000? Did you know that Keyes is supposed to be a Republican?
To: exodus
"...the reality of our current situation is that the vast majority of the voters are gathered in the center of the political spectrum, and that's the kind of government that Americans have voted into place the last several elections..."
# 187 by Luis Gonzalez
I don't accept that.
The vast majority of our citizens are conservative, as shown by the "red and blue" map of the 2000 election results. People have been told that they have to chose whether to vote between two liberal candidates, or to "waste" their vote on a third party candidate.
Too many citizens have bought into the story that they have no power, a view that creates political apathy. Apathy, in turn, allows the leadership of both major parties to promote their socialist policies with no interference from the electorate.
Once citizens realize that voting for a third party is actually the strongest possible way to influence the Republican Party, political apathy will be greatly reduced, and conservatives in government will flourish.
"I voted for Keyes in the primaries..."
To: exodus
Wait a second, I thought you were trumpeting third parties, earlier, now you voted for Keyes in 2000? Did you know that Keyes is supposed to be a Republican?
# 194 by A Citizen Reporter
I trumpet conservatism.
I want the Republicans to be conservative, so I vote in the primaries, hoping that I can find a man I can support.
It would do me no good to encourage the Republican party to be conservative, if I didn't reward them with my vote when they do as I ask.
Right on bro.
If anyone worries about wasting their vote, just remember that your vote doesn't really count anyway since they can not count accurate to one vote, and don't forget that your vote is cancelled out by democrats who register their cats and dogs to vote.
Protest votes do count, and if you are really serious about affecting the system, don't forget that money can buy way more votes than the one you are alloted by law.
# 193 by sixmil
LOL, sixmil.
The Florida vote-counting was a travesty, and everyone knew it.
Funny how neither Democrats or Republicans see the need to call for an investigation into the vote fraud which was reported from several parts of the country.
I guess they both have something to hide.
If we don't vote at all, as has been suggested, Republican's and other socialists will assume that we won't work to change the direction of our policies.
The only way to send a message to the Republicans is the way it was done in 1992.
Voting for a third party candidate works.
To: exodus
Thanks for that, I think you've finally explained your postition clearly. In 1992 we elected the most vile and disgusting human being ever to wear the mantle of president. In fact, it was that very fact that called so many of us on FR together. It was perhaps one of the worst eight years this country has ever suffered under a president. Yet you claim that it was "good" because it sent some sort of third party message. I guess it was good for you, as it served your self-interest. For the country, I'd beg to differ.....
# 192 by A Citizen Reporter
It was good because it sent a message that the Republicans recieved.
That message was directly responsible for the Contract with America, which gave us control of Congress.
Because of that third party message, we traded a Republican President and a Democratic Congress for a Democratic President and a Republican Congress.
That's a major shift in power.
Control of Congress is much more influential than sitting in the White House.
To: exodus
"...You keep brining up the 1994 elections. Do you think that every republican in that class was a conservative? Heck no."
# 191 by Texasforever
Of course they weren't all conservative, Texasforever. However, the voters thought they were conservatives .
It turns out that the Contract with America was just a piece of paper. Republicans were just reading from it, it didn't really mean anything to them. Republicans lied when they promised to uphold the principles of the Contract.
Then an amazing thing happened. The people noticed the lie, and remembered when the time came to vote.
Republicans were expected to gain about 20 seats in the last Senate election. Instead, they lost seats, and actually lost control of the Senate when ONE man left the Party.
Why??
Because the Republicans lied about supporting the principles of the Contract with America, and because the Republicans allowed Clinton to stay in power after committing treason.
When you're a real conservative, honesty is noted, lies are punished, and treason is considered a high crime.
Can you even quote it?
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