Posted on 07/02/2002 3:37:44 AM PDT by WhiskeyPapa
The Osceola Sentinel SUNDAY, JULY 5, 1998 -- An Edition of The Orlando Sentinel
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Historian: Civil War tales are pure bunk
History doesn't lie. Right? Well, the winners want history to make them look good. Sometimes the losers get their say, too.
Perspectives can change. Villains can be made to look like heroes. Interpreting the past can lead to lively debates. And because it is history, often the only confirmation comes from what was written down or told orally through generations.
Even so, care must be taken.
When talk turns to the Civil War and blacks' role with the Confederacy, there is no room for revisionist theories for Asa R Gordon.
For instance:
The Confederate states were interested in white supremacy.
The war between North and South was not about states' rights or a War of Southern independence. States' rights and independence are WHATS of the Civil War. The WHY of it was to preserve slavery, Gordon told a small group at St. James AME Zion church in Kissimmee last week.
Simply put, there should be no memorials honoring men like Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson. They and others resigned from the Union Army and fought against their country.
They were rebels, and they are traitors to the United States. Nations normally don't honor traitors, Gordon, a retired astrophysicist, said to a crowd that included a group from the Osceola Children's Home.
People normally don' t build memorials for traitors, racists or those who practice genocide.
There are no memorials to the Nazis.
In the United States, Confederate memorials dot the countryside. The flag is flown with pride. The Nazi flag - and Nazi leaders - inspire hatred.
It should he no different for Lee and others who fought for the South. The real heroes, Gordon said, are those Southerners who fought for the North.
As for those who try to promote the idea that blacks were willing soldiers for the South, Gordon's research disproves it.
In a lecture that was close to three hours long, the founder and executive director of the Washington, D.C. -based Douglass Institute of Government left no doubt about the fantasies and historical myths of Afro-Confederates.
"The South won in peace what it lost on the battlefield," Gordon said.
The commitment to the neo-Confederate movement is often emotional rather than intellectual, he said. It cannot stand the scrutiny of scholarship. The belief that blacks willingly served in the Confederate Army is ludicrous and harmful, he said.
"A slave didn't have a choice. If his master said he was going, the slave couldn't say no. He was a slave."
Those who say blacks fought for the South should look at Confederate documents, which ban blacks serving as regular members of the Army. They also need to look at records showing that those who did serve deserted when they got the chance.
Propagation of the present-day theories make it hard for people to realize that blacks were unhappy about their condition, Gordon said.
"How can you owe a people anything, if in fact they were so satisfied with the state that suppressed them?" he asked. "How can you correct that legacy if you are in denial about the true reasons?"
Gordon's visit was sponsored by Ann Tyler and Evan McKissic. McKissic, a retired Osceola teacher, has been critical of the theories of another retired local teacher, Nelson Winbush.
Winbush travels the country recounting the stories of his grandfather, who he said willingly and proudly served with Southern forces.
"I try to get the truth out. I talked with my grandfather, and I know what he said," Winbush said.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Pino welcomes comments. He can be reached at (407) 931-5935, by e- mail at OSOpino1@aol.com, by fax at (407)931-5959 or by mail at The Osceola Sentinel, 804 W. Emmett St., Kissimmee, 34741.
in the 19th century the "monitoring power" was the Papal States OR any neutral power;today the "monitoring power" is the Swiss Republic and/or the UN.
for dixie,sw
EVERY single person on the "kill lists" was either an enrolled member of the 5th KS Volunteers, a "jayhawker" or a member of the "Free State Militia"; ALL were WAR CRIMINALS;ALL had committed crimes against civilians in MO.
face it N-S, you are trying to defend a bunch of SCUM & WAR CRIMINALS, who were no better than the WORST of Hitler's crowd.
the ONLY thing i regret about the cavalry raid on Lawrence was that COL Quantrell's forces didn't kill Doc Jennison (who was in MO that day raiding civilian farms) & COL Lane (who disguised himself as a woman to escape his JUST reward).
for dixie,sw
Including the women and children?
the most anti-southron, hatefilled, revisionists AGREE to that.
for dixie,sw
Washington (a Virginian-American), was inaugurated on April 30, 1789, so he had been President for 1796 minus 1789 = 7 years, (not just 4) in 1796, which is two decades after the DoI was signed.
If you're going to get technical, and throw up a smoke screen to distract from my point, get technical, but at least be accurate.
I say again, Fly Your State Flag, on Independence Day. Celebrate what the DoI stands for - STATE INDEPENDENCE. Legitimate Unity came much later, in 1788 (except for Rhode Island, which existed as a free and independent State, without war being declared on it (!) for a couple more years). Illegitimate Unity came in 1865, after the Southern States were forced to surrender under military occupation, and began having their Constitutions re-written at the points of bayonets. We have an involuntary, non-consensual Union, that was founded during that occupation.
So fly your State Flag on Independence Day, and Celebrate "Consent of the Governed".
By the way, a voluntary Union, is a more Perfect Union, and I wish Lincoln could have lived to preserve the principles which the Union Party Radicals ripped from the Constitution during their time of absolute power. I'll never bow down and worship them for what they did, nor would Washington have.
"Consent of the Governed", makes Governments legitimate.
Be accurate?
You're the one who indicated that there was no United States prior to 1796, and you're telling ME to be accurate?
Walt
Roughly, Walt. Roughly. The US really didn't get under way till roughly two decades after the DoI was signed. It was more than one decade, and I rounded up. Sue Me.
but
Fly your state flag on Independence day. That's what it's all about - State Independence.
And
Don't Forget
A Voluntary Union (with Consent of the Governed) Is a More Perfect Union.
You're too dumb to even know when to let it drop.
ARTICLE IThe Stile of this Confederacy shall be "The United States of America".
The Articles were adopted in 1781, five years after the D of I was signed, not twenty years.
"You're too dumb to even know when to let it drop."- Walt
What have you gotten yourself into now, Walt? You're desperately thrashing and spewing meaningless insults to go along with your irrelevant quotes.
Declaration of Independence:
"...as FREE AND INDEPENDENT STATES, they have full power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which INDEPENDENT STATES may of right do..."
Fly your State Flag on Independence Day, and celebrate the days when there was "consent of the Governed", and State Independence in the "United States", which was referred to in the Declaration of Independence as such, - well before even the Articles of Confederation, Walt, - but the meaning of which absolutely escapes you.
A voluntary Union is a More Perfect Union.
i'd be curious as to the source of this nonsense you keep posting. even the most radical of the damnyankee apologists and revisionists state that the redlegs,jayhawkers & KS militia members were ALL military members (though they deny the same servicemember status to the CSA partisan rangers!).
even the pro-yankee book, THE DEVIL KNOWS HOW TO RIDE, does NOT dispute that the members of "the kill lists" & COL Quantrell's cavalry were ALL miltary servicemembers of their respective units. face it, N-S, you are AGAIN completely wrong!
for dixie,sw
Leslie also points out that Quantrill was born in Ohio. I'm surprised you would quote a book with as big a 'mistake' as that. Still, if he is right about the birth place then he might also be right about the Lawrence massacre. Which would make you wrong...again.
i personally know of NO pro-union SCHOLAR and/or HISTORIAN that would dispute that members of the redlegs,jawhawkers & KS militia were all SERVICEMEMBERS, even while many of them state that our partisan rangers were "outlaws,desperdoes and soul-less killers" (as my mother says, "it just depends on which side you are on"), to whom they would deny the same protected status as military members. not even ONE!
for TRUTH & dixie LIBERTY,sw
for dixie, your obediant servant,sw
thankfully that was STOPPED!
free dixie,sw
for dixie,sw
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.