Israel Gave Major Aid to Hamas

United Press International | 24 February 2001 | Richard Sale

[rdb3]

Apparently, you are only interested in playing games rather than actually examining the facts.

And APPARENTLY you see only what you want to see. You contradict yourself when you accuse me of "playing games" while at the same time saying, "actually examining the facts."

Really?

There are no "facts" to be examined. You've admitted as much by saying that you don't know if it is true. But you lean towards believing it, even when you DON'T have facts (as you readily admit).

Games? Puh-leeze. Don't blame me. Your own words betray you.

[FourtySeven]

LOL

[FourtySeven]

Thanks AWW, this post deserves another bump. Of course the blind, pro-Israeli FReepers around here will find some way to discredit this, and validate the posting of tear jerking pictures of poor persecuted Israelis again.

[Catspaw]

Gee, Larry, after a review of your posts, you're more of the Sharpton/Farrakhan type--and your stance towards the Middle East echoes Tom Friedman.

[Austin Willard Wright]

Here is where we stand. A credible charge, with evidence, has been put on the table. You (and nobody else) has provided *any* evidence to indicate the charges are wrong. I don't know wheter the story is true or false but the refusal (or inability?) to answer the charges (no counter charges have been made) is revealing.

[Cachelot]

with evidence

Again, you parrot: What evidence???

If you honestly do not understand the word "evidence", please go wear a dunce-hat and stand in the corner for the rest of the day.

[DreamWeaver]

Peace to you too....I guess I am also on the hair trigger when I post stuff like this. Plus we are getting non-arguments such as, "can you prove it is right," etc.

Try a response to " can you prove it" with

can you dissprove it ?

[Cachelot]

can you dissprove it ?

"You are one of LarryLied's nazi friends".

Now please disprove it. Or dissprove it :).

[Austin Willard Wright]

The evidence in the article as published in a credible news outlet!!! That is my EVIDENCE! You, on the other hand, have NO EVIDENCE. Comprende?

[Cachelot]

The evidence in the article as published in a credible news outlet!!!

What credible news outlet? Usenet? The unknown "Sami" (which rings sort of a bell, btw)? GuerrilaNet? Uhmma.com? CODOH?

The only thing here is your claim that you have "evidence", which is nothing but a nearly two-year old story which only the nazis seem to have picked up on, by a reporter frequently turning up on nazi sites.

Lol. You guys really should try harder. But I guess that side doesn't exactly recruit "the best and the brightest" ;)).

[Alouette]

what is *your* evidence to *these* charges made by a credible source (namely a story from the UPI)?

But this story doesn't appear in the UPI archives so it can't be confirmed that it ever was reported in UPI, can it? But even normally reliable news services have published bogus stories, only to retract them when challenged. Even accepting the dubious excuse "the UPI search engine sucks" where else can this story be found? Only on screechy Jew-hating conspiracy sites. What other news stories have the two named "sources" provided? Screechy, Jew-hating conspiracy theories.

But, let's even grant that this story is true. So what? What's your point? Most countries like to keep their enemies busy with internal squabbling by boosting the opposition. If your argument is, that because Israel did this in the past, they are solely responsible for Hamas being what it is today, just doesn't wash.

BTW did you stop beating your wife before or after you were busted for selling crack cocaine?

[rdb3]

I don't know wheter the story is true or false but the refusal (or inability?) to answer the charges (no counter charges have been made) is revealing.

Oh, c'mon. Do you have a problem with simple English? You just admitted (yet again) that you "don't know wheter [sic] the story is true or false." Yet you rely on the statement that this story is allegedly "credible." But where's the actual link to this story? Did you write this story? Where can I go and see this exact same story in its entirety?

So, "where we stand" (although I'm not standing with you) is with an uncorroborated story submitted by you without the benefit of a link. I'm not a reporter, okay? The onus is not on me, it's on YOU since you obviously submitted and believe the story. It would have been different if you would have said in your initial commentary after the story, "This is something to ponder." Did you do that? No! You said, "I think this speaks for itself."

I'm not going to do your work for you. If you can back this up with other sources, please do so. You submitted the story (from whence it comes I have no idea) and gave off the glaringly obvious impression that it is indeed true without question (all the while admitting that you DON'T know if it is true or not). So, like I said earlier, we're at an impasse (and you don't get to set the rules, at least not for me).

Game recognizes game. Let that marinate for a minute. It'll sink in.

[philosofy123]

The problem with the US, and Israeli politicians is they are both too far removed from the reality of Islamic hate. They don't even know what it is? When WTC was blown in 1993 by Islamists, Clinton and the media were too politically correct to blame Islam. Even now, Bush still insists that Islam is a religion of peace. We should never have dealt with the Moslem Brotherhood of Egypt. They are the most hate filled group this planet ever known. We helped them fortify their power in Afghanistan, Chechnya, Uzbekistan, Pakistan, Indonesia, Sudan, Philippine, Bosnia, Kosovo, and Palestinian Hamas.

[LarryLied]

Same thing happened when the Israeli "art student" possible spy story broke. No one could know one way or the other what the facts were. It was reported by Fox News, Jane's Intelligence Review, NBC, Insight Magazine, Ha'artez and the Jewish paper, the Forward. There was something to it.

Despite all that, a horde of posters descended upon the first post and all other posts calling the story an "urban myth" claiming it had been "debunked" and smearing freepers as Nazis, antisemities and crazies for even questioning what happened.

We see the same tactic on every thread which casts the slightest bad light on Israel. And it is always the same cast of characters who do the mud slinging.

[Cachelot]

There was something to it.

What, exactly? After the badly fooled Fox removed it, and only kooks like you and your antisemitic friends were thumping it?

You are obsessed with Jew-hate. That does at least pass the smell test, and the evidence is all over FR :)).

Btw, do you still claim to have "invented" the term "holocoustism"?

[LarryLied]

Clinton and the media were too politically correct to blame Islam.

Ironic isn't it considering the solid support Clinton got, and still gets, from the Jewish community. If anyone knows how dangerous Islam is to the west, you would think the Jewish community would be it. Wonder why Jewish and other Democrats didn't and still don't critize Clinton for not picking up Bin Laden when Sudan offered him to us.

[philosofy123]

You and I are in full agreement on this. The way I see it, is the ignorant politicians in the US, and Israel usually hires political appointees from among their supporters as bureaucrats. Typically these bureaucrats are hired for their connection rather than their knowledge. Then, we end up with the blind leading the blind. If we elect an ignorant leader because he is tall or got nice teeth, at least we should have people with real knowledge giving him/her advices.

[mv1]

George Szamuely in his article Israel’s Hamas refers to the UPI article posted:

The terrorist organization Hamas is largely an Israeli creation. A UPI story last year quoted a U.S. government official as saying: "The thinking on the part of some of the right-wing Israeli establishment was that Hamas and the other groups, if they gained control, would refuse to have anything to do with the peace process and would torpedo any agreements put in place."

UPI story from 6/18/2002:
Hamas history tied to Israel

[mv1]

Ever since 9/11, I've had the feeling I'm in Ann Lewis/Sidney Blumenthal Land when reading these Israel threads.

I generally find all of this to be irritating as it merely confirms my opinion of their agenda; that it is full of hateful miscreants.

[LarryLied]

Good find. It is more likely that Israel, or any other country, would attempt to create division in the opposition than they would not. Why some are so defensive about it is a puzzle. Perhaps there is a lot more here we don't know about and they do. That is usually the case when someone denies the obvious.

This would not be the first time Israel has been a victim of Blow-Back. Ranks right up with Operation Susannah if that is the case.