9TH CIRCUIT COURT: PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL

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[Recovering_Democrat]

UNBELIEVABLE. BREAKING ON FOX: SF APPEALS COURT SAYS PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE ENDORSES RELIGION, AND IS THEREBY UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

[BMCDA]

Ah, so are you one of those people who thinks that not mentioning a god is equivalant to saying outright that said god does not exist? Which "God" is having its existence denied by its mere lack of mention?

Gosh, so many déjà-vu's, so little time ;-D

[Cindy]

re post #1378: You may want to visit this site and revise your statement.

[BMCDA]

So what ideals were imposed before 1954?

[cascademountaineer]

The pledge as a whole is not unconstitutional...the problem is that the current version does not represent all Americans equally.

Those are liberal arguments, saying 'groups' have opinions block opinions as opposed to dealing with people on an individual level.

Freedom of choice, to say it or not say it is individual.

There are many who are not monotheistic, many who believe in a female deity, and many who believe in no diety at all. Those two little words in the pledge are unwarranted.

Well, we can also throw out the parts of one nation, indivisible as well since it was only added in the 20's and is no doubt an afront to 'multi-culturalism'

Eventually someone or another would have taken issue with the whole thing. Just as people have taken issue with American flags in schools.

Its just divisive identity politics and should be called for what it is.

[Dimensio]

Well, we can also throw out the parts of one nation, indivisible as well since it was only added in the 20's [...]

Huh?

[hinj]

Yeah? Well I'm sick of these Athiests forcing THEIR religion down MY thoat. It is a religion with them, they go out and evangelize, they don't allow people of other religions the freedom to practice, it is a religion and they are trying to impose it on the entire country.

But they aren't forcing their religion down your throat. Merely removing your religion from their throat. You are still free to practice your religion as you see fit. Simply put, Athiests and other non-monotheists don't wish to have their tax dollars support monotheistic practices. On the same note, you don't like your tax dollars supporting abortion clinics (which is why W killed the funding to clinics which perform abortions). Quid Pro Quo, it's the same darned thing.

You can still say the pledge with all your religious fervor...but now the athiests & non-monotheists can say it with full patriotic fervor.

* Restore the Pledge to it's pre-Eisenhower condition of representing ALL Americans! *

[Recovering_Democrat]

Say those two little words remain, and the itsy bitsy teeny weeny minority who are offended by the mention of a historical fact remain so quietly.

[cascademountaineer]

The phrase referring to the flag, my bad, I copy and pasted the wrong part before.

link,

In 1923 and 1924 the National Flag Conference, under the 'leadership of the American Legion and the Daughters of the American Revolution, changed the Pledge's words, 'my Flag,' to 'the Flag of the United States of America.'

[hellinahandcart]

Simply put, Athiests and other non-monotheists don't wish to have their tax dollars support monotheistic practices.

Good thing it doesn't cost a dime to stand up and recite the pledge then, isn't it?

[cascademountaineer]

Also details how different groups have different even radically different takes on what it means and how they choose to say it.

Just leave the darn thing alone. Its been revised enough as it is.

[Dimensio]

Ah, okay. I am aware of the original text of the pledge and the 1923 change made, but I was confused by the assertion that "one nation, indivisible" was an alteration.

[hinj]

craig_eddy wrote:
Well, thank GOD I send my kids to a Christian school that DOES believe in the Pledge of Allegiance

I may be missing something, but neither the 9th Circuit Court ruling, nor anyone here on FR is advocating the removal of the Pledge of Allegiance.

TWO WORDS.

That's what we're talking about here. Two words. If the two words stand, the pledge no longer represents all Americans. If the two words are stricken, all Americans are represented (and you can still have all the Godly fervor in your heart you desire).

* Restore the pledge to its pre-Eisenhower condition representing ALL Americans! *

[hinj]

Thank you SO MUCH for this well thought out post.

Last time we mixed government and religion, people got burned at the stake!

Let's not do it again, ok?

[Dimensio]

Oh come now, there are plenty of countries today that have mixed religion and government heavily and no one there gets burned at the stake.

They get beheaded, dismembered and executed for converting to a different religion, but never burned.

[cascademountaineer]

They get beheaded, dismembered and executed for converting to a different religion, but never burned.

Whats wrong with that? Seems like a good attempt at population control.

[hinj]

Howlin howled:
I am a person who believes this country is MAJORITY RULE........that's who.

I say...whuuu?
Which explains the continued existence of the institution of slavery. Think before you post! The nature of the republic is majority influence....though the nature of our particular beast is money talks.

More howling:
And I'm sick of people LIKE YOU whining and trying to DENY ME MY RIGHTS.

No one is denying you anything here. Katya8 was correctly pointing out that the pledge as amended in 1956 denies the American-ness of many non-monotheistic groups.

Your histrionics make you look ridiculous, sir (or ma'am). Calm down. Breathe. Think. You are not being denied anything. This ruling, however, may mean that many people feel more accepted as Americans because the pledge, a core belief, is no longer contrary to their other core beliefs. Nor should it be contrary to yours, with those two words removed.

* Restore the pledge to its pre-Eisenhower condition representing ALL Americans! *

[McGavin999]

But they aren't forcing their religion down your throat. Merely removing your religion from their throat.

No, they are not. They are removing my ability to honor God in public (notice, I did not say the Catholic God, or the Jewish God, or the Muslim God, etc.)

We are told we can worship God in private, in our own homes or churches. How long until we are told that we must draw the blinds so the Athiests are not offended when they pass?

This is not freedom of religion, it is the tyranny of the non-religious. Between the liberal desire to transfer wealth, and the athiests desire to rob us of God, soon the USA will resemble the old USSR. Will you people be happy then?

[Dimensio]

They are removing my ability to honor God in public

The ruling in question does not enjoin any individual from honoring any deity in a public setting.

[hinj]

rintense spouted:
I recited the Pledge ever single day of elementary school. We also sand 'My Country Tis of Thee'. Just waiting for THAT to be shot down. Is nothing sacred?

Just a review, here:
My country tis of thee, sweet land of liberty
of thee i sing
land where my fathers died, land of the pilgrim's pride
from every mountain side let freedom ring

Hmmmm....I'm not seeing anything here referencing a particular religion. I think this one's safe.

THINK! READ THE RULING! The entire pledge has NOT been struck down, only TWO WORDS added in 1956.

*Restore the pledge to its pre-Eisenhower condition representing ALL Americans!*

[Howlin]

This ruling, however, may mean that many people feel more accepted as Americans because the pledge, a core belief, is no longer contrary to their other core beliefs.

I'm not interetested in their core beliefs. This country was founded on OUR core beliefs. If they don't agree with our core beliefs, or if our core beliefs offend them, perhaps they are in the wrong country.

Nor should it be contrary to yours, with those two words removed.

I have just as much right to say those two words as you do to not say them.