According to Joe Hadenuf: Official Free Republic Position Parallels GOP On Immigration. No Big Deal

6/23/02 | Joe Hadenuf

[Joe Hadenuf]

Last night during a conversation/debate between myself and the leader/owner of the Free Republic, Jim Robinson, a rather stunning revelation was brought forth. I asked Mr. Robinson, which Republicans were vocally backing, and supporting Tancredo in his fight for our sovereignty? After some delay, Jim answered, “I have no idea. Immigration is not a big concern of mine.”

This is from the man that runs the most well known, and respected, political conservative internet forum in the United States? And Mr. Robinson resides in California?

Below is the exchange

Conservatives, Cut Bush Slack The Chicago Sun-Times | June 22, 2002 | Thomas Roeser

To: Jim Robinson

#939: Oh, so the Republicans are fighting for our sovereignty? Besides Tancredo, which Republicans are these Jim? If you could be specific.

#1034: Which ones are not ?

#1056: You never answered my question Jim.

Since you failed to answer my question, I will go first.

Given thirty years of this open border, immigration "free for all" that has resulted in many millions entering our nation illegally, I believe there are very few Republicans, or anyone else in DC, besides Tancredo, that are visibly and vocally fighting for our national sovereignty.

Now would you care to tell me which Republicans are standing with Tancredo and voicing outrage against this titanic, never ending invasion of illegal aliens?

1056 posted on 6/22/02 11:09 PM Pacific by Joe Hadenuf [ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1034 | View Replies | Report Abuse

To: Joe Hadenuf

I have no idea. Immigration is not a big concern of mine.

1109 posted on 6/22/02 11:43 PM Pacific by Jim Robinson [ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1056 | View Replies | Report Abuse ]

At first I as was stunned, angry, and felt let down. Then after some thought I wasn’t too surprised.

Looking back at all the hundreds of immigration threads where many were deleted, disappeared and sent to the cornfield, I guess I am not too surprised. However, given the gravity and danger this country faces regarding this out of control, titanic immigration issue, I am still outraged, disheartened and saddened by Mr. Robinson’s response. Thread after thread Freepers have displayed genuine outrage and honest concern regarding this issue. And the outrage and insanity regarding this issue goes far beyond the Free Republic.

It’s escalated to the point now where many of our major cities in this country, such as Chicago, have now approved the use of identification cards, issued by Mexican consulates that will give illegal aliens access to financial and public services and more, as our so-called leaders stand treasonously silent, as our sovereignty is slowly dismantled.

This massive invasion of millions of illegal aliens has changed the face of many of our once great cities, from California to Illinois, to Georgia, to Tennessee, to Texas etc etc.

They are crowding our already over crowded classrooms, voting in our elections, choking off our social services, driving down the wages, while driving up our taxes, filling our jails, standing room only in many big city emergency rooms, etc, etc, etc. I personally know of six American citizens that have become victims of illegal alien crime, from having family members slaughtered on our highways by drunk driving illegal aliens, to stabbings, robberies and common burglaries.

And just recently, another young Deputy Sheriff was shot through the face and killed in California by an illegal alien, that has again fled back to the safety of Mexico. It has now been learned that this individual has already been deported three times, each time he has returned and committed more crimes in our country, leaving American victims in his wake, and each time he fled back to the safety of Mexico.

There are many forms of terrorism, and this continued invasion of millions upon millions is one form. And it's my opinion that it’s one of the most dangerous, most threatening issues facing America today. Even today as we speak, our federal government continues to allow in almost 8000 Middle Eastern men a month on visas. It is my opinion that this legal and illegal “immigration free for all” must be, stopped, extremely limited, and reformed immediately!

Again, I am extremely saddened and distressed by Mr. Robinson's response and lack of concern regarding this issue.

[Cultural Jihad]

I'll tell you another thing I've been doing. I've printed out Voter Registration Forms from my State's website and I carry them around with me. I've been able to sign unregistered people up as Republicans and have even got a few to switch from the Democrat Party. I'm with you, we need all the votes we can get and the Dems usually are the best at the get-out-the-vote drives. We might be able to change that.

Maybe FReepers should hit their State's websites and get the appropriate registration forms and do the same thing. 50,000 FReepers x 25 new voters each = 1.25 new Republican voters. I'll start by posting a link to the Arizona Voter Registration Form and pledge to get 25 new Republican voters before the general election. Maybe we should start a thread for this kind of thing. What do you think?

Cool idea, Spiff!

California Voter Registration Form (PDF format)
Arizona Voter Registration Form (PDF format)

[Joe Hadenuf]

There's no way to support all the old people, Joe.

I'm an old guy, and I will work until I drop.

Other old people would return to work if not rejected by employers who favor hiring young immigrants.

Oh come now, do you really think millions upon millions of illegal aliens will affect your work search for positions that would suit elderly American citizens? Besides elderly wouldn't work for little money, as they are after the big money.

Sarcasm......

[Spiff]

Cool idea, Spiff!

I'm glad someone thought it was a cool idea. Spread the word.

[VRWC For Truth]

My opinion is each state has a right to govern themselves.

I'll second that, : )

[Jim Robinson]

Well, I think you are wrong.

[Cultural Jihad]

I'm glad someone thought it was a cool idea. Spread the word.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/705418/posts

[FreedomFriend]

Good Point.

[dsutah]

I'm sure glad you laid that out! I always thought that's what somewhat defined a conservative. I agree with all of these to some extent, and consider myself a conservative. But then there are some people on here that tell us who agree with the points on your list; that we are not 'real conservatives'. This is very confusing!

[dsutah]

Millions, you say? What, did you go out an interview a million people, or just assume a million people agree with you? You don't just presume things like that! It's true many people have some agreement and sympathy for your views and concerns. But aren't these people entitled to have other concerns besides this one?

I don't agree with this general assesment that this great horde of people are streaming across the border every day. I also don't believe that the great number of them are illegal! There is also the possibility that dangerous elements are coming from other places, such as the Canadian border. Some can and have come by sea or air, from other countries. Don't you remember the report of the terrorists who came into the country in a shipping container?

Another concern of a lot of people, is the enemy within. You know, the extreme leftists in our midst, some in our Congress, the media, etc.... I don't know about you, but one of my fears is that some of these leftists, Socialists, Marxist, Progressives, (whatever they call themselves) are going to get too powerfull, and take over our government completely! One of my own personal nightmares is waking up one morning, and a crew of leftists throws over G. Bush's government. Now that's only a nightmare. I hope it never becomes a reality!

But I hope you understand why I, and I believe many other people (I'm not going to claim high numbers, that's being presumptuous), are not worried about some immigrants coming over the border right now. I do have concern, but there are other places and people to be concerned about right now. Those people are: Osama Bin Laden's bunch, Al Qaeda (sp?), Saddam Hussein, the Chinese, the North Koreans, you know, the usual suspects. And oh yes, the extreme leftists.

[dsutah]

That's a beautiful and inspiring story. Our family goes often to a Mexican restaurant nearby, and the owner is a very successfull, and law-abiding family man. So are his managers. One of them we became very friendly with. He employs a lot of fellow Hispanic workers. Many, if not most, eventually learn how to speak English, as they serve customers. His kids work there too, and they go to local schools and churches.

I believe he gives many of those in the immigrant community a chance to make it here, like he was given, if they want it badly, and work hard.

[Joe Hadenuf]

And my views on this issue are not just mine, as there are millions of Amercan citizens with the very same views and feel there is no bigger, or threatening issue facing this nation. Millions of American citizens are more than angry that our leadership stands in total silence regarding this issue.

"Millions, you say? What, did you go out an interview a million people, or just assume a million people agree with you? You don't just presume things like that!"

Yes, many millions. Did I interview them? Uh, no I didn't. But I did work for two years helping put forth California's historical Proposition 187, so I do have a little insight into this. Those of you in Utah may not be familier with it. Here, let me help you.

Several year ago, the people of the great state of California held a free election and voted 3 to 1 in favor of proposition 187, which would have put a stop to the tax paid support of millions of illegal aliens. And WE WON THE ELECTION. The federal government then stepped in and burned our ballots and declared our election unconstitutional.

And this was just the citizens in California. It does not include the people in Texas, Arizona, Tennessee, etc, etc, etc, that have hadenuf.

Now, what were you saying about me presuming and assuming? It seems you are the one that is doing the assuming.

[Joe Hadenuf]

Thanks for that. And good post..

[Joe Hadenuf]

I don't agree with this general assesment that this great horde of people are streaming across the border every day.

There you go assuming again

To: Jim Robinson; Joe Hadenuf; 4Freedom; Meaghan; Tancredo Fan; Sabertooth

JimRob,

First off I would like to thank you for creating and running the Free Republic. In my opinion, it is the best site on the internet.

Secondly, I respect your opinion on Illegal Immigration, even if I think it is misplaced.

There have been numerous studies on the cost of illegal immigration and the effects of mass immigration. If you have not already done so, please visit the Center for Immigration Studies at http://www.cis.org/

Below is some information I have been working on since the first of this year. I plan on writing a paper on the number of illegals that entered the US, one year after the attacks on September 11th.

Please read it and consider the information,

Thanks and Semper Fi,

Marine Inspector

US BORDER PATROL, MEXICAN BORDER, APPREHENSION INFORMATION

Date Range: 09/12/2001 To 06/11/2002

(last updated 06/11/2002) In the 9 months since September 11th, the US Border Patrol has apprehended 661,605 illegal aliens attempting to cross the US/Mexico border illegally.

These are the official numbers per Border Patrol Sector:

San Diego Sector - 69,749 El Centro Sector - 75,093 Yuma Sector - 31,245 Tucson Sector - 233,215 El Paso Sector - 64926 Marfa Sector - 8,553 Del Rio Sector - 53,794 Laredo Sector - 62,149 McAllen Sector - 62,881

Some of these apprehensions are what we call recidivist apprehensions. A recidivist apprehension, is an illegal that has been apprehended before. That apprehension may have been during the reporting period or it may have been before the reporting period and the illegal may have been apprehended several times.

For this presentation, I will subtract the recidivist apprehensions from the total apprehensions. 661,605 - 256,882 = 404,723.

This gives our base figure of new illegal alien apprehensions. This figure is not 100% accurate, as some apprehensions go unreported and we have removed the aliens that have been apprehended by the INS before.

So, since September 11th, the US Border Patrol has apprehended approximately 404,723 new illegal aliens attempting to illegally cross the US/Mexico border.

The Border Patrol estimate that they apprehend only 20% of the illegal aliens crossing into the United States. That means 4 illegal aliens get through for every one apprehended.

Independent Immigration experts estimate that the Border Patrol apprehends only 10% of the illegal aliens crossing into the United States. That means 9 illegal aliens get through for every one apprehension.

For this presentation, I will use the Border Patrol estimate of 20%.

So, if the Border Patrol apprehended 404,723 new illegal aliens since September 11th, the number of illegal aliens that made it into the United States undetected would be approximately 1,618,892. Although it could be as high as 3,642,507.

This is an average of over 6,000 illegal aliens crossing into the United States from Mexico, undetected daily.

You must remember that these figures only reflect approximately 60% of the illegal aliens attempting to enter the US. I have not included the official US Ports of Entry along the US/Mexico border or the US/Canada border and I have not included any airport or interior apprehensions or the Border Patrol apprehensions along the US/Canada border. Using those numbers, would push the daily total of illegals entering the US to over 10,000.

439 posted on 6/24/02 11:12 AM Pacific by Marine Inspector [ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 405 | View Replies | Report Abuse ]

[Joe Hadenuf]

In case you don't know it, we are ALL entitled to our OWN OPINIONS.

Yes, I am entitled to mine, and you, yours.

I'm glad you got your own thread though. Now everybody can see what a swell Freeper you are.

You don't quite get it Howlin. I have told you several times, that I don't come here to be popular, or to win popularity contests. You will also note that I never ping a clique of people to my posts or threads. I can stand on my own without groupies.

I have strong beliefs regarding this national crisis. Sorry that offends you.

[Joe Hadenuf]

Bump that..

The point that I want to make now is that we are a nation of laws. Every elected official is sworn to uphold the laws and the Constitution of the United States. It doesn't matter what party they are affiliated with.

The immigration laws and quotas are already on the books. This administration is doing no better than the past administration when it comes to enforcing them.

This unfortunately seems to be the case.

[DB]

You act like a kid who just discovered his parents don't know everything. Pretty immature of you to post this like you did. Jim never claimed to be the all-knowing god of the right. He's just a guy trying to make a difference. Just because of a lack of knowledge and/or concern in a particular area that you disagree with him on you try to make a public spectacle out of him. For shame.

[AppyPappy]

You didn't answer my question. All you exposed was your running.

[William Terrell]

To corrupt a corrupt saying and renew its true meaning, our diversity is our strength.

People are hard to handle, hard to herd, hard to chew, like gristle. There have always been people that want to handle, herd and chew, and many have reached leadership position in this country. In the last century a tactic has emerged to solve the people problem.

It's an extension, I believe, of the solution to the sovereignty of the many states in the prior century. State sovereignty was a similar problem. States could shut down the central government, and most important, citizenship of the United States was formed at the state level. Each state was its own tiny nation and the people therein were unreachable by the central powers.

That solution was, through war and patient propaganda, to centralize all these hard to handle states into one sovereignty, the federal government, inother words, to federalize. And, through that example, the solution to the sovereignty of the world's many individual countries is to globalize.

The point of the federalization and globalization is control. There are many who like control, need control, for their personal ambitions and their idealology. Some of these people were Napoleon, Alexander, the leaders of the Roman Empire. Their efforts to address this need was devoted to conquering the world. To do that, they had to not only take each individual country, but hold it. This failed for the same reason herding smoke in a common direction fails. But, with globalization, like our federalization, all can be led by one or few, then that one or few can be easily overthrown. Then the overthrowers rule in a way that Nepoleon, Alexamder and the leaders of the Roman Empire never dreamed of.

The solution to the problem of individual sovereignty is to groupize, propagandize individuals into identifying with a group. The group ills become the members' ills, the groups goals become their goals, the group enemies become their enimies. When a group is formed, according to the nature of human beings, it must be led, so leader(s) percolate to the top. From that point on, it is only necessary to lead the leaders.

Free Republic is a gaggle of individuals, hard to control. "It" has no group policy, group goals (other than to survive) or group ideals. Therefore it can't be controlled as a whole, but only as individuals that post thereon, and that is impossible. For that reason it con't be taken over and controlled; it can only be destroyed.

I, personally, like that feature, and I believe most others do, too. I believe that if Jim imposed a political, religious or cultrual policy on the forum FR would disband.

[matrix]

"I, personally, like that feature, and I believe most others do, too. I believe that if Jim imposed a political, religious or cultrual policy on the forum FR would disband. "

I think that given the mean sprited nature of the "Admin Moderators" now extant, many FReepers have "disbanded," and many more are thinking of leaving. This place ain't what it used to be.

[William Terrell]

Bump