Posted on 06/23/2002 10:25:55 AM PDT by redrock
"This is free ground. All the way from here to the Pacific Ocean. No man has to bow. No man born to royalty. Here we judge you by what you do, not by who your father was. Here you can be something. Here's a place to build a home. It isn't the land--there's always more land. It's the idea that we all have value, you and me, we're worth something more than the dirt. I never saw dirt I'd die for, but I'm not asking you to come join us and fight for dirt. What we're all fighting for, in the end, is each other."
What is it that you believe???
A real question....since so many times on this forum, and others, the Republican 'mantra' has become a simple one.
Defeat the Democrats..whatever the cost..the Democrats are the enemy...(sort of Orwellian in it's simplicity)..repeated time after time...and anyone who dares to ask questions of George Bush's policies and actions is loudly shouted down.
But here's a 'news flash' for ya.......It may be that the Democratic Senators...Representitives.....leaders ARE the enemy of maintaining a Constitutional Republic.
But...the average member of the Democratic Party...is not.
The average member of the Democratic Party is just brainwashed..(for want of a better word)...
Just like the average member of the Republican Party is in danger of becoming.
"This is a party, this Republican Party, a Party for free men, not for blind followers, and not for conformists. "
So..I'll ask my very simple questions once again......
And Republicans who wish to rant and rave about 'third party' this or that...go right ahead.
But George W. Bush barely won the last election.....
You NEED staunch conservatives ( nowadays I guess we would be considered 'radical'.....) to help re-elect him....and others of the party..
CONVINCE us.........that at a certain point you will be willing to fight for 'old time values'.....
CONVINCE us ...that you have not become slavish followers of GWB...in much the same way as some did with Clinton....that you will ask the 'hard questions' (and demand the answers).
CONVINCE us.......and you will not do so by the constant dismissal of our very real concerns.
CONVINCE us.......
-----------------
So where do we 'draw the line'????
Should we elect rapists or murderers...if they are members of the Republican Party..and could 'help retake the Senate'???
At what point do you say 'this far and no further'???
Must every single American 'prostitute' themselves in order for one political party (one which on CLOSE examination is no different than the other one) to 'control' government???
I have certain values and beliefs...based upon my Belief in God.
Should I just throw those Beliefs and Values away...and close my eyes....just so the Republicans can win???
The basis of this Nation is a hardcore belief that the values and ideals (sorry to use that word..ideals...seems that word anymore has the same effect on Republicans as a Cross does to evil) that founded this Nation are important....
We'll work on the Fourth another day. ;-)
No...you should join The Constitution Party and win or loose on the merits of principle only.
Don't let your friends see who you're talking to. I'm one of the "bad guys." hehe
I've said all along there is no party or person I agree with completely. But over the long run I do hold a high opinion of Howard Phillips. I've listened to him for years and he is both a good man and one who is dedicated to better goverment. I respect him. He out of any party best represented my political and moral beliefs as to how this nation needs to go. The GOP in the past 6 years has left me with little choice with persons like Viagra Bob and Oprah Libby along with the side show of Whitman, Malarini, ect. I will not support the Ford/Rockerfeller sect of the GOP as I think it like the Liberal agenda will lead to this nations demise. Good Republicans I support others I will not.
The GOP is a dying party the next Whiggs. Either it changes drastically from it's swing left in the past 6 years or it will just be a subsidy of the Democratic Party. Yes I would like to see the GOP change but it's leadership has other plans and they don't include Conservative issues.
How can you read what I posted and NOT see it as a loss of freedom? Is the Kool-Aid that strong???
OK
I can no longer live in the state of California - I left in 1988 - because of guns that I own. Plus, after 1994, the type of guns that I like to shoot can no longer be imported into the US - that's an infringement on the 2nd Amendment.
What type of gun would that be?
Doesn't matter. It was legal. Now it's not.
If I speak against the Federal Government's "War on Terror" in public, the attorney general of the US has said - and the so-called "Patriot Act" states - that I might be considered a terrorist. So there goes freedom of speech, the 1st Amendment.
Have you even spoken out in public? Isn't FR.com considered a public forum? I think you might be over exaggerating on this one. If what you say is true, then everyone on FR.com has 'breached' the patriot act in some form or another.
Indeed. And I have made it a point to not go too far in what I say. It's no longer safe to speak freely in this country.
The government, both federal and other, have shown how much they like to confiscate property - simply because you *might* be committing a crime. And it's damned hard to get it back - plus it will cost you a lot of money. Go to www.fear.org (Forfeiture Endangers Americans' Rights) if you want to see stats. That's the 5th Amendment.
Might be committing a crime? Sounds a bit nutty to me. Admittedly, I am not that familiar with the 5th amendment. But, if you haven't comitted a crime, isn't your fear unwarranted?
Why don't you visit fear.org and then you tell me? Many many people - thousands of people in the last 10 years - have lost everything from thousands of dollars in cash (might be drug money, you know, even when taken from little old ladies) to nice cars (I know about one guy's new Corvette - might be from drug profits {it wasn't) that he's spent thousands trying to get back). Go visit the website. It's an education in itself.
The federal government in many, many ways has taken away the rights of the individual states. Just one recent case is when Bush signed the Education bill a few weeks ago. That's the 10th Amendment.
And yet, the Philadelphia school district is now run by a private company. We have a sh!t-load of charter schools here in Michigan. I fail to see how holding school districts accountable takes away a State's rights.
Have you seen what the curricula is that the fedgov is requiring? Ever heard of the NAEP test?
Using Echelon, Carnivore, and God only knows what other tools, the government surveils our phone calls, email, etc. That's the 4th Amendment.
And you have undeniable proof they are listening and monitoring you?
Only if you consider their actual official admission proof. It's not that they're listening to me specifically - it's that they're capturing ALL phone conversations and/or email and then scanning for keywords. Without probable cause. That's unconstitutional.
People are being locked up without access to an attorney and without even being accused of a crime, especially since 9/11. There are people now behind bars that have been there for months - even years - who have never been charged with a crime. That's the 6th Amendment.
And they are not American citizens. This is a catch-22 because no matter what the gov't does, it can't win. Detain questionable people and possibly prevent further terrorist strikes, or, release them and be the scapegoat when an attack occurs. If these were Mexican illegals who were being held, would you still feel the same?
BZZZZT! Wrong answer. Many of them ARE American citizens.
Bush's comment about Padilla the other day was classic - "He's a bad guy and he needs to be behind bars." No evidence. No proof. No actual crime committed. All required by the Constitution, by the way. Just "he's a bad guy" so it's OK to lock him up. Don't you see the precedent that sets???
I would be very interested in hearing what your solutions are to the above 'loses' of freedom.
Simple. Restore the Constitution that they all swear to uphold and defend.
This is why you people make me want to effen scream for God's sake.
You're truly a nice and sweet person, I mean that. But it's because people like you that we've drifted so far from the freedoms that were promised us in the founding documents.
I just got done this month working every single day of 2002 just to pay off government, now the rest of the year is mine. Every day I woke to an alarm, every day I sweated, every aggravation, every problem at work, every one of my customers I went out and sold so far this year ..........were all for THE GOVERNMENT. I'm not being far-out either. All of it, until June was soley to pay off the government. This is infuriating and a bastardization of our right to liberty and the pursuit of happines.
Then you ask "what freedoms have we lost". I could make you a list rintense that would make your head spin, but why should I waste my time when you ask such questions?
You're probably under the impression that I don't like you but that's very far from the truth. What I don't like is when reasonably smart people don't "get it" when it comes to what it means to be a constitutional FREE REPUBLIC. To "get it" and argue about how to accomplish it is one thing, to not get it at all is another.
The Bill of Rights is a very plain spoken easy to read document. If you go and read it and familiarize yourself with the first 10 amendments I promise to never again come into one of those absurd pic threads and say anything mean about GWB. You have my word on that.
I love it when you can't sleep! (Put some caffeine in this man's toothpaste.... :)
You hit a gram slam with this one (even quoted Joshua Chamberlain....you can never go wrong doing that....)
This is a common theme for Bushbots.
Yes, conservatives are going to work within the Republican party. What we're looking for is a conservative to run against 43 in the next presidential primary.
There is an old saying: "The destination at the end of the road is not as important as the quality of the journey".
In this respect "Houston we have a problem".
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