Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Baptist pastor's words shock Muslim leaders
Star Telegram ^ | 6/12/02 | Jim Jones

Posted on 06/13/2002 4:35:20 PM PDT by Rightly Biased

ST. LOUIS - A former Southern Baptist Convention president stirred interfaith tumult when he described Muhammad, Islam's revered founder, as a "demon-possessed pedophile."

The Rev. Jerry Vines made the comments Monday night at the Southern Baptist Pastors Conference, drawing strong denunciation from Muslim leaders Tuesday when his statements were publicized.

But the Rev. Jack Graham, the new president of the Southern Baptist Convention, and the Rev. James Merritt, outgoing president, supported Vines.

Hodan Hassan, a spokeswoman for the Washington-based Council for American-Islamic Relations, said Vines' comments were divisive and inaccurate.

"This kind of hate-filled rhetoric is very shocking," Hassan said. "It is especially surprising to see it coming from someone of that stature making such a statement concerning a religion that is practiced by one-fifth of the world's population."

Vines, senior pastor of the First Baptist Church of Jacksonville, Fla., deplored the rising tide of pluralism.

"Today, people are saying all religions are the same," Vines said. "They would have us believe Islam is just as good as Christianity. But I'm here to tell you, ladies and gentlemen, that Islam is not as good as Christianity. Christianity was founded by the virgin-born Lord Jesus Christ. Islam was founded by Muhammad, a demon-possessed pedophile who had 12 wives and his last one was a 9-year-old girl."

Muslims maintain that they are the descendants of the Judeo-Christian progenitor Abraham and serve the same God as Jews and Christians, even though they call him Allah.

But Vines said: "Allah is not Jehovah. Jehovah is not going to turn you into a terrorist that'll try to bomb people and take the lives of thousands and thousands of people."

Hassan said, "I would hope that responsible people of the Southern Baptist Convention would deliver a strong denunciation of Reverend Vines' comments."


But during a news conference Tuesday, Graham quoted from Unveiling Islam, which was written by two former Muslims who are professors at conservative Baptist theological schools. Authors Ergun Caner, an assistant professor at Criswell College in Dallas, and Emir Caner, an assistant professor at Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary in Wake Forest, N.C., said Muhammad had numerous concubines and 13 wives, including the 9-year-old girl, Graham said.

Syad Ahsani of Arlington, Southwest regional chairman of the American Muslim Alliance, said Muhammad was betrothed to the child, which was a common practice; however, such marriages weren't consummated until children reached adolescence.

Hassan said it is not known when Muhammad's marriage was consummated.


Muhammad was involved in polygamy, but so were early Jewish leaders, others said.


Selod Faroog, an orthopedic surgeon and an Islamic spokesman in Fort Worth, said: "People who can't face the truth come out and make accusations like this. If Muhammad was heavily involved in multiple wives, he wouldn't have had time to spend all night praying like tradition says."

Reaction to Vines' comment came as the annual meeting formally began with about 9,600 messengers, or delegates. President Bush addressed the Baptists by satellite Tuesday morning, praising them for their belief that religion should not be separated from political life.


Later, 12 gay activists from the California-based SoulForce, perennial protesters at the convention, were arrested as they tried to disrupt Merritt's convention message. Some protesters shouted, "Please hear us. ... God loves his gay and lesbian children," before they were carried away by police and charged with trespassing motivated by religious discrimination.

Outside, 37 people were arrested when they refused to obey a police order not to turn away from the America's Center. They were charged with failing to obey a police officer.

Merritt worked the protesters into his sermon, saying they are examples of the nation's "culture war" going on in the nation.


"We love homosexuals," he said. "God loves homosexuals, but he loves them too much to leave them homosexuals."


Still, some Southern Baptists said Vines' comments could hurt efforts for Muslims and Christians to work together.

"That language is so offensive that it tears down any bridge we might have to speak to Muslims about Christianity," said Bruce Prescott, executive director of Oklahoma Mainstream Baptists, a moderate group.

Even some conservatives who agree with Vines' assessment had reservations about his statements.


Richard Land, director of the Southern Baptist Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission, said, "I agree with Dr. Vines: There is no way to salvation except through Jesus Christ." But Vines' language differed from what he would use, Land said.

Albert Mohler, president of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, Ky., said that Muhammad is a complex figure and that he did not know enough about his life to comment on the pedophile accusation.

Baptists have angered other religious groups with their statements and tactics. Some Baptist congregations prayed for the conversion of Muslims to Christianity during Ramadan, a period for religious observances in Islam.

Baptists distributed literature on how to convert Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons, which they describe as "cults," in 2000.


In 1999, some Baptists publicly called for prayers during Jewish holy days for conversion of Jews to Christianity.


In other action Tuesday, Baptist moderates asked that Southern Baptist missionaries who were hired under older Baptist Faith and Message Statements be allowed to continue serving even if they refuse to affirm the newer, more controversial 2000 Baptist Faith and Message.


The requests were referred to the International Mission Board and the North American Mission Board, effectively killing them.


Another motion asked the Southern Baptist Convention to recognize only one state convention in each state. Texas, Virginia and Missouri have competing state conventions.

If approved, it could severely affect the Baptist General Convention of Texas, which is controlled by moderates. An alternative convention, the Southern Baptists of Texas, led by conservatives, is strongly supported by the national Southern Baptist Convention.

Staff writer Brett Hoffman contributed to this report.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Front Page News; News/Current Events; US: Texas
KEYWORDS: muhammad; muslims; pedophile; southernbaptists
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-40 next last
Sometimes I'm shocked that the Baptists will actually stand up and say these things.
How long before the pastor is forced to apologize?
1 posted on 06/13/2002 4:35:21 PM PDT by Rightly Biased
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: all
Please excuse this short interruption. As you know, the fundraiser is in full swing. We need your help. Please stop by the fundraising thread and give it a bump. And if you have a few bucks, we'd really appreciate a contribution to keep this site running. IMO, it's the best site on the internet for news and analysis.
Donate Here By Secure Server
Or mail checks to
FreeRepublic , LLC
PO BOX 9771
FRESNO, CA 93794
or you can use PayPal at Jimrob@psnw.com

Thank you for your support!
2 posted on 06/13/2002 4:36:21 PM PDT by WIMom
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Rightly Biased
What if he's speaking the truth? I'm not saying that I know that Mohammed had a 9 year old wife, but I will agree with his point that we are not all serving the same god. My God is the one true God, and is not the same god that would inspire the kind of hatred and destruction that we've seen from the followers of Mohammed.
3 posted on 06/13/2002 4:40:58 PM PDT by RightFighter
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Rightly Biased
They should get used to it. Not much different than what is said about Christianity in many of our finer higher learning institutions.
4 posted on 06/13/2002 4:42:00 PM PDT by Shermy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Rightly Biased
He has nothing to apologize for. Speaking the truth is all he has done and it is still protected by the constitution.
5 posted on 06/13/2002 4:43:20 PM PDT by tutstar
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: tutstar
The Muslims seem to have pretty thin skin.
6 posted on 06/13/2002 4:45:54 PM PDT by Eric in the Ozarks
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: RightFighter
I'm not knockin the Southern Baptist I are one but in our liberal world of PCBS I don't reckon this kind of truth to last very long without some kind of push for an apology.
Remember the push for Franklin Graham to apologize for his comments about alla.
7 posted on 06/13/2002 4:47:22 PM PDT by Rightly Biased
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Eric in the Ozarks
Christians are fair game, they're supposed to keep their mouths shut.

There are 2 other threads on this also.

8 posted on 06/13/2002 4:47:47 PM PDT by tutstar
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: tutstar
sorry dude did the search and didn't find tried all the key words I could think of. oh well?
9 posted on 06/13/2002 4:49:41 PM PDT by Rightly Biased
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Rightly Biased
Tough luck, according to a piece on tonight's Special Report showing a segment from Saudi TV, there was a three year old girl saying the koran calls Jews pigs and apes.
10 posted on 06/13/2002 4:50:44 PM PDT by UB355
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Rightly Biased
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/699327/posts

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/698509/posts

Sorrrrrrrrryyyyyyy dude........I'm not a Dude.

11 posted on 06/13/2002 4:54:09 PM PDT by tutstar
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: RightFighter
What if he's speaking the truth? I'm not saying that I know that Mohammed had a 9 year old wife

He married his final wife at age 6, consummated the marraige when she was 9.

One seriously sick demon possesed mudering bastard he most certainly was.

12 posted on 06/13/2002 4:56:45 PM PDT by Centurion2000
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Rightly Biased
Hodan Hassan, a spokeswoman for the Washington-based Council for American-Islamic Relations, said Vines' comments were divisive and inaccurate.

Boy, if they have to react to something like this, they must be really0thin-skinned.Oh,that's right,it's an Washington-Based Muslim,right? LMAO-What does he care? Imagine the things that have been said about Jesus over the years,and you'll see my point.Sheesh!

13 posted on 06/13/2002 5:02:38 PM PDT by Pagey
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: tutstar
ok then just sorry?
14 posted on 06/13/2002 5:03:48 PM PDT by Rightly Biased
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Rightly Biased
Islam is a false religion, and more cult like.
15 posted on 06/13/2002 5:10:47 PM PDT by TLBSHOW
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Rightly Biased
The pastor sounds fairly right on the money, though someone should tell him that "Allah" is just the Arabic equivalent of the English "God" or the French "Dieu". Arab Christians, who pray to the All-Holy Trinity, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, including my Patriarch, call Him "Allah" when praying in their native language.

The question, "Is the Christian Allah is the same as the Mohammeden Allah?" is on the same order the question of whether the Christian God is the same as the Unitarian God. If a Christian wishes to be charitable, he may say "yes, but the others (be it Muslim or Unitarian) have a false understaning of Him". If one wishes to be strict, one must say "no".

16 posted on 06/13/2002 5:16:06 PM PDT by The_Reader_David
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Eric in the Ozarks
The Muslims seem to have pretty thin skin.

Ain't that the truth? Sheesh. Dude was quoting two former Muslims, who are scholars to boot. Guess we better never quote the Koran or anything.

17 posted on 06/13/2002 5:17:18 PM PDT by Gurn
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Rightly Biased
Were the Muslim leaders shocked because what he said was wrong, or were they shocked because someone was finally telling the truth about their religion?
18 posted on 06/13/2002 5:20:32 PM PDT by Michael2001
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Rightly Biased
Muhammad sounds a lot like Billy Blythe
19 posted on 06/13/2002 5:22:47 PM PDT by Founding Father
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Rightly Biased
The important thing is, Franklin didn't apologize, as far as I know. Couple of years back, I was watching the SBC president on Russert's show. Russert seemed to beg him to renouce the "Mormonism is a Cult" resolution the convention passed -- at the meeting in Salt Lake City.

The President had none of it, affirming every word.

I've been a Baptist since I was nine. There are plenty of knocks on our denomination, but the two principles I most cherish are (1)*very* de-centralized governance; and (2)ultimately, our Convention leaders stick to their guns. They know Him to whom they ultimately will answer, and will answer to Him alone in this life and the next.

20 posted on 06/13/2002 5:23:26 PM PDT by Gurn
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-40 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson