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1 posted on 06/12/2002 11:50:13 AM PDT by The Energizer
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To: The Energizer
They also think Tequilla is the greatest booze on earth and that a nap in the middle of the afternoon makes good business sense.

Just because they think something doesn't make them right.

118 posted on 06/12/2002 1:20:18 PM PDT by Bikers4Bush
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To: The Energizer;snopercod;First_Salute;Ingtar;WSGilcrest; ClearCase_guy;RS;3AngelaD;AAABEST...
To All:

I can't help but feel this situation is analogous to the Kashmir situation between India and Pakistan...............

...........where a territory is part of one country and an adjacent country's citizens (who also reproduce faster than the native population) move in and then start screaming for alignment with THEIR native land; they "Democratically" wish to take a vote that will lead ultimately to their joining with their country of origin; and if they are not allowed this vote a terrorist war is started.

146 posted on 06/12/2002 1:33:56 PM PDT by DoctorMichael
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To: The Energizer
I work on both sides of the border and deal with Mexicans in Mexico and people of Mexican ancestry on an ongoing basis. In general, it seems to me that the logical political thing to do for the U.S. is to link favorable immigration concessions to Mexico with counter-balancing, pro-development concessions from Mexico which would tend to reduce the pressure on more Mexicans wanting to come to the States, so that the pressure on Immigration would be gradually reduced.

For example, we could say, "Look, you want more Mexicans to be able to come to the U.S.? Ok, we will let in so many more Mexicans if you will completely liberalize rules on small business formation by Mexicans in Mexico, so that any Mexican in Mexico who wants one can have a business licenses for the asking, to open a business - without paying bribes, without wanting for permission, without needing 10 letters from someone, without knowing someone at City Hall, etc., i.e. anyone can have a business license in Mexico just for the asking.

In the end, we have to reduce the huge disparity between the northward and southward migration pressures. So I think we should use our leverage to force Mexico to further liberalize their internal policies, and create pro-development internal policies which in the end will reduce the pressure on our southern border. We should demand quid pro quo. (To their credit, Mexico has been moving in this direction for a long time anyway, but they still have quite a ways to go.)

If this policy linkage were done well, based on a good econometric model, it could actually reduce immigration. What was a nominal increase in immigration could actually result in a decrease in immigration, since the pro-development policies in Mexico would actually draw away more Mexican citizens than the immigration concession attracted.

The following are just some general observations related to how I see the current situation between the two nations. Please excuse the vanity of a long post.

1. Most persons of Mexican ancestry consider themselves "Mexican" regardless of where they were born, where they live, or what language they usually speak.

2. People of Mexican ancestry who live in the U.S. are not at all like those living in Mexico. My impression is that they acculturate to something more like the mainstream U.S. culture, even though they often don't seem to realize this has happened. They consider themselves "cien por ciento", i.e. 100% Mexican, and yet they are different from the Mexicans living in Mexico.

3. Since Mexicans who come here to live do acculturate, even though they often don't realize it's happening, all of this immigration will tend to put pressure on Mexico to change in the long run, since so many people come to the U.S., acculturate, and then go back. However the U.S. educational programs which try to promote "Mexican culture" within the U.S. don't help anyone. Actually, "culture", whatever that is, is very fluid and constantly changing. The world is changing very quickly, and no one can ever go back to the past.

4. Citizenship and cultural character are often unrelated. For example, there are a large number of kids living in Mexico who have always lived in Mexico, have always spoken only Spanish, but who were born in the U.S.. Sometimes I will be talking to someone in Mexico and they will point to a child and say "She is a U.S. citizen", even though the child may have no recollection whatsoever of ever having been in the States. The opposite case is also true. They are many kids whose life experience is in the States, and who don't speak Spanish, and are completely acculturated to living here, and yet who are not U.S. citizens and who may be deported at any time.

5. Although Mexicans are quick to claim rights from the U.S. government, they tend to treat each other very badly in Mexico. For example, a friend of mine wants to move within Mexico, and she says she is not permitted to ship two suitcases of clothes, because apparently there is a law against it. Many Mexican kids can't get into Mexican schools because they lack birth certificates, even though no one really doubts that they are Mexicans. Corruption is still a huge problem as well.

6. It is true that Mexican people have lived in the Southwest for centuries, speaking Spanish.

7. The really problem is that Mexico is under-developed. If Mexico could develop their economy, it would reduce the pressure on emigration.

8. As most people would admit, you can't really blame individual Mexican's for wanting to come here, since life there is so much harder. Most U.S. people I think would agree with the statement that "If we were there we would try to do the same thing".

9. For a typical citizen of Mexico the opportunity to move the U.S. basically means a chance to become rich by Mexican standards. The amount of money one can make working in the U.S. is far and above what they could ever hope to earn at home.

10. Most people living in Mexico seem to already have family members living in the U.S.. It seems to me that most adults I talk to have siblings living in the States.

11. It seems to me that President Fox can't be blamed for trying to work out some new deal with the U.S., because he has so many major internal problems facing him at home with so few resources to work with.

12. In the long run, it's in the best interests of both nations to try to work together to improve things. We have to live side by side so we might as well find ways to cooperate.

149 posted on 06/12/2002 1:35:20 PM PDT by dano1
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To: The Energizer
Más activado, usted sigue yendo e ir....
155 posted on 06/12/2002 1:39:42 PM PDT by DemoSmear
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To: The Energizer
Mexico Seeks US Withdrawal to pre-1848 Borders
163 posted on 06/12/2002 1:47:42 PM PDT by Hillary's Folly
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To: The Energizer
I hereby declare that Spain belongs to Arabs. They are the rightful inhabitants who were unfairly kicked out by Spainards 600 years ago. In order to be more "tolerant", all people of Spain must have open borders with Islamic countries they all much learn Arabic or get out. Isn't diversity wonderful? < /sarcasm>
181 posted on 06/12/2002 2:10:43 PM PDT by BillyBoy
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To: The Energizer
Mexicans need to be fought back.
185 posted on 06/12/2002 2:28:58 PM PDT by lavaroise
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To: The Energizer
Who gives a $hit what Mexicans think with respect to the borders of the United States?.

---max

187 posted on 06/12/2002 2:31:56 PM PDT by max61
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To: The Energizer
bump
190 posted on 06/12/2002 2:34:56 PM PDT by lavaroise
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To: The Energizer
F the Mexicans. Round 'em up and send 'em back!
207 posted on 06/12/2002 3:31:52 PM PDT by MistrX
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To: The Energizer
The truth finally comes out! What do you have to say to that, Mr. President?

No, I didn't mean you, President Fox!

209 posted on 06/12/2002 3:32:32 PM PDT by mrustow
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To: The Energizer
The Mexicans have never won a war, they are lovers and are much more likely to breed us out of existance.
213 posted on 06/12/2002 3:43:38 PM PDT by Texbob
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To: The Energizer
My family was on Martha's Vineyard WAY before the Kennedys came to the U.S. I figure they owe me back taxes and a bunch of nifty realestate.
214 posted on 06/12/2002 3:48:46 PM PDT by madison10
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To: The Energizer

Mexican colonists invade U.S. 1965-2050 until they overwhelmed american population. Newly elected amexican president signs into law declaring spanish the official language of the United States of Amexica.


219 posted on 06/12/2002 4:09:43 PM PDT by bok
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To: The Energizer
BWAHAHAHHAHAH!! BWAHAHHAHHAHAH!!

Yeah, and I just got off the phone with Tony Blair. He says England wants the US back.

We have till thursday to move out.

221 posted on 06/12/2002 4:21:59 PM PDT by Jhoffa_
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To: The Energizer
Why does this article sound just like what the so-called Palestinians say about Israel? I mean, they're almost interchangeable.
239 posted on 06/12/2002 6:31:46 PM PDT by rdb3
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To: The Energizer
There might still be time to hand Kosovo back over to its rightful owners before the UN starts demanding that we hand half of Florida, Texas, and California over to Mexico on the same perverted basis of ethnicity being everything and sovereignty nothing.
240 posted on 06/12/2002 6:33:01 PM PDT by medved
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To: The Energizer
Well, that settles it. We should conquer them and hold them as a colony. Suck them dry and throw away the husk. Sounds like a plan to me.

--Boris

241 posted on 06/12/2002 6:42:36 PM PDT by boris
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To: The Energizer
New Zogby Poll: Mexicans Say Southwest U.S. Belongs to Them

Next thing you know, the Palestinians will be demanding that Israel return all the land won in the '67 war...

244 posted on 06/12/2002 6:58:30 PM PDT by texasbluebell
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To: The Energizer
In the first place the fact that "all"(in the sense of each and every one of them) Mexicans don't want the reconquista is irrelevant. It is what the small active minority wants coupled with the total inability of American office holders to effectively govern.

All major revolutions are carried out by 2% to 5% of the population. Examples being the American Revolution, The French Revolution and the Bolshevik Revolution. Most of those believing that the Southwest belongs to Mexico will provide passive support to the active fighters e.g. food, shelter, concealment and small amounts of money.

247 posted on 06/12/2002 7:11:45 PM PDT by AEMILIUS PAULUS
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