(What Would Gordon Lightfoot Do)
Posted on 06/12/2002 11:50:12 AM PDT by The Energizer
New Zogby Poll: Mexicans Say Southwest U.S. Belongs to Them; Shouldn't Need Permission to Enter U.S.
WASHINGTON, June 12 /PRNewswire/ -- Americans and Mexicans have widely divergent views of border issues, according to a new poll by Zogby International. Zogby found that a large majority of the Mexican population believes the southwest territory of the U.S. rightfully belongs to Mexico, and that Mexicans should have the right to enter the U.S. without first obtaining U.S. permission. By contrast, Zogby's survey of Americans conducted within a few days of the Mexican poll shows a large majority supports reducing immigration levels and wants the military deployed along the border to protect the U.S. from illegal immigration.
Zogby's poll found that 58 percent of Mexicans agree with the statement, "the territory of the United States' Southwest rightfully belongs to Mexico." Only 28 percent disagree, and 14 percent are unsure. A similar majority, 57 percent, agree with the statement, "Mexicans should have the right to enter the U.S. without U.S. permission," while 35 percent disagree. Seven percent are unsure.
The survey has a margin of error of 3.5 percent. The Mexico portion of the survey was conducted in Spanish between May 25 and May 26 among 801 adults chosen at random throughout Mexico. The poll was commissioned by Americans for Immigration Control, Inc. (AIC), which advocates increased restrictions on immigration.
"There is obviously a large and significant gap between the attitudes of Americans and Mexicans," said Robert Goldsborough, AIC president. "While most Americans want immigration reduced, most Mexicans think they don't even need permission to enter our country. The poll clearly shows there is less common ground for immigration negotiations between Mexico and the U.S. than the leaders think. Support for a porous border and a loose migration policy occurs only on the Mexican side, not in the U.S."
Zogby's survey of American attitudes found wide majorities of Americans also oppose amnesty for illegal aliens. The U.S. portion of the survey was conducted of 1,015 likely voters in the U.S. from May 28 to May 30. It found that 65 percent disagree with the statement, "foreigners residing illegally in the U.S. should be given amnesty." Just 26 percent of likely voters support amnesty for illegals, while 9 percent are unsure.
A large majority, 58 percent, agrees that the U.S. should "admit fewer immigrants each year." Only 6 percent want "more immigrants each year," and 30 percent want to "keep immigration at the current annual levels."
The single largest majority in the entire poll was found among Americans supporting use of the military to guard the border. Fully 68 percent of those surveyed agree with the statement, "the U.S. should deploy military troops on the border as a temporary measure to help the U.S. Border Patrol curb illegal immigration." Only 28 percent disagree, and 3 percent are unsure.
Poll details and sub-group tabulations available on request.
No, the problem is, THEY refuse to assimilate to the US, and make unreasonable demands on us to support their every whim. There is no excuse for rudeness when coming to (or staying in) one's house.
(What Would Gordon Lightfoot Do)
They are fleeing a failed society for one that offers them a future. The problem is, they're coming too fast for us to assimilate comfortably.And a good number of them come for a life of crime. I heard and LAPD Gang task force member on the Larry Elder show a few years ago, who put the number of Illegal Alien gang members from Mexico at over 100,000.
He was very specific: these are Mexican criminals who came here Illegally specifically to be in gangs.
I once helped chase down one of four Illegals fleeing the scene of a hit-and-run accident they'd caused. I got a follow-up call from a Detective Hernandez of the LAPD. They were having a hard time making the case, because one of the Illegals got away, and the rest were saying that he was the driver.
I asked if he had any lattitude to inquire as to their residence status. He said his hands were tied by LAPD and City Council policy. But he added, "If I could determine the residence status of every suspect I interview, I could clean up the gang problem in the (San Fernando) Valley in six months."
The failure of their society is their responsibility, not ours.
The real problem is: they're Illegal, they know it, and they don't care, because they don't respect our laws or sovereignty.
I can't help but feel this situation is analogous to the Kashmir situation between India and Pakistan...............
...........where a territory is part of one country and an adjacent country's citizens (who also reproduce faster than the native population) move in and then start screaming for alignment with THEIR native land; they "Democratically" wish to take a vote that will lead ultimately to their joining with their country of origin; and if they are not allowed this vote a terrorist war is started.
Just like those palestinian women breeding suicide bombers.
See post #133
For example, we could say, "Look, you want more Mexicans to be able to come to the U.S.? Ok, we will let in so many more Mexicans if you will completely liberalize rules on small business formation by Mexicans in Mexico, so that any Mexican in Mexico who wants one can have a business licenses for the asking, to open a business - without paying bribes, without wanting for permission, without needing 10 letters from someone, without knowing someone at City Hall, etc., i.e. anyone can have a business license in Mexico just for the asking.
In the end, we have to reduce the huge disparity between the northward and southward migration pressures. So I think we should use our leverage to force Mexico to further liberalize their internal policies, and create pro-development internal policies which in the end will reduce the pressure on our southern border. We should demand quid pro quo. (To their credit, Mexico has been moving in this direction for a long time anyway, but they still have quite a ways to go.)
If this policy linkage were done well, based on a good econometric model, it could actually reduce immigration. What was a nominal increase in immigration could actually result in a decrease in immigration, since the pro-development policies in Mexico would actually draw away more Mexican citizens than the immigration concession attracted.
The following are just some general observations related to how I see the current situation between the two nations. Please excuse the vanity of a long post.
1. Most persons of Mexican ancestry consider themselves "Mexican" regardless of where they were born, where they live, or what language they usually speak.
2. People of Mexican ancestry who live in the U.S. are not at all like those living in Mexico. My impression is that they acculturate to something more like the mainstream U.S. culture, even though they often don't seem to realize this has happened. They consider themselves "cien por ciento", i.e. 100% Mexican, and yet they are different from the Mexicans living in Mexico.
3. Since Mexicans who come here to live do acculturate, even though they often don't realize it's happening, all of this immigration will tend to put pressure on Mexico to change in the long run, since so many people come to the U.S., acculturate, and then go back. However the U.S. educational programs which try to promote "Mexican culture" within the U.S. don't help anyone. Actually, "culture", whatever that is, is very fluid and constantly changing. The world is changing very quickly, and no one can ever go back to the past.
4. Citizenship and cultural character are often unrelated. For example, there are a large number of kids living in Mexico who have always lived in Mexico, have always spoken only Spanish, but who were born in the U.S.. Sometimes I will be talking to someone in Mexico and they will point to a child and say "She is a U.S. citizen", even though the child may have no recollection whatsoever of ever having been in the States. The opposite case is also true. They are many kids whose life experience is in the States, and who don't speak Spanish, and are completely acculturated to living here, and yet who are not U.S. citizens and who may be deported at any time.
5. Although Mexicans are quick to claim rights from the U.S. government, they tend to treat each other very badly in Mexico. For example, a friend of mine wants to move within Mexico, and she says she is not permitted to ship two suitcases of clothes, because apparently there is a law against it. Many Mexican kids can't get into Mexican schools because they lack birth certificates, even though no one really doubts that they are Mexicans. Corruption is still a huge problem as well.
6. It is true that Mexican people have lived in the Southwest for centuries, speaking Spanish.
7. The really problem is that Mexico is under-developed. If Mexico could develop their economy, it would reduce the pressure on emigration.
8. As most people would admit, you can't really blame individual Mexican's for wanting to come here, since life there is so much harder. Most U.S. people I think would agree with the statement that "If we were there we would try to do the same thing".
9. For a typical citizen of Mexico the opportunity to move the U.S. basically means a chance to become rich by Mexican standards. The amount of money one can make working in the U.S. is far and above what they could ever hope to earn at home.
10. Most people living in Mexico seem to already have family members living in the U.S.. It seems to me that most adults I talk to have siblings living in the States.
11. It seems to me that President Fox can't be blamed for trying to work out some new deal with the U.S., because he has so many major internal problems facing him at home with so few resources to work with.
12. In the long run, it's in the best interests of both nations to try to work together to improve things. We have to live side by side so we might as well find ways to cooperate.
33. You know more than 3 guys named Gordon.
WOW!! That Senora has certainly bought into the Lib'ral mindset, hasn't she? Hopefully, her kids will reject their mama's philosophy and become productive citizens so as to support their useless mother throughout her twilight years. I hate hearing about folks that devoid of self-pride, but the Socialist Left has been extremely efficient in developing them over the years, be they illegal immigrants, welfare queens, Federal employees, and/or trailer trash.
FReegards...MUD
I would've flat out told her to f*#$ off, call the INS, and then kick her out of my house. How DARE she!!
A. better patrol of the border on our side and
B. cleaning up the political scene in Mexico.
Unfortunately, the Mexicans have nothing to gain by cleaning up their house.
Hey, right or wrong, I'm all for it.
But why pick and choose? Eliminate the handouts. Don't let Illegals enter and overcrowd our schools. Deport imprisoned Illegal on release (drop them in Mexico City). Get rid of the anchor baby loophole. Heavily fine or seize companies that knowingly hire Illegals. Round up Illegal "day laborers" where they congregate and deport them.
Do it all, fight the Illegals on every front, and watch the stampede for the border.
They are being told daily, from birth, that they are NOT illegal in the US by their government, and by El-presedente Fox. The word "illegal" has no meaning to them.
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