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1 posted on 05/08/2002 9:17:51 AM PDT by Korth
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To: Korth
What is it with all these anti-Lincoln posts? Do you people not have a life, do you need to get one? I bet that you are as boring as hell to talk to.

GET A DAMN LIFE, AND LEAVE THE REST OF US ALONE.

2 posted on 05/08/2002 9:20:10 AM PDT by skateman
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To: Korth
Tyrant, according to this man. Ludwig Von Mieses Institute
3 posted on 05/08/2002 9:23:14 AM PDT by Coleus
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To: Korth
Yes how dare Lincoln keep America from breaking apart into petty feuding kingdoms and abolish slavery what a horrible tyrant(sarcasm).
4 posted on 05/08/2002 9:25:44 AM PDT by weikel
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To: Korth
(zzzzzz...(yawn...))
5 posted on 05/08/2002 9:27:50 AM PDT by kezekiel
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To: Korth;archy;aomagrat;Moose4;ConfederateMissouri;Ligeia;CWRWinger;stainlessbanner;Colt .45...
Definately a tyrant of the worst order.
Aw, Shucks!
6 posted on 05/08/2002 9:29:07 AM PDT by shuckmaster
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To: Korth
But actually, Lincoln should get the credit for defeating Jefferson for Hamilton.

This is supposed to be the thesis of the article, but the author offers nothing at all to support it. The flow went something like this:

I. I am an objective novice
II. I interviewed DiLorenzo and Ferrier, the arguing experts
III. Honesty is important
IV. Lincoln defeated Jefferson for Hamilton
V. Both DiLorenzo and Ferrier distort the facts in their personal arguments with each other

That's it. The real title of the article should be "Novice student has ephiphany that Lincoln was a Hamiltonian: Just take his word for it." What a joke. I would think even a novice would consider the Federalist Era (not exactly an esoteric secret of American history) to be a series of crushing and lasting blows to Jefferson's vision, pitting Jefferson and Madison against not just Hamilton, but Washington, Adams, and Marshall. Hamilton takes the fall for the lot of them, because he is the least likable and least admired. One also might note Madison's own endorsement in the 1830's of Websterian Whig policy. One also might consider Old Hickory as something of a significant man in the history of American republicanism, and the balance of powers, both political and economic. But hey, what do I know? I'm just a novice.

8 posted on 05/08/2002 9:31:27 AM PDT by Huck
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To: Whiskeypapa
Time to kick some neoconfederate keyster can you post those facts of all the Southerners hung after secession merely for being loyal to the Union.
17 posted on 05/08/2002 9:42:29 AM PDT by weikel
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To: Korth
Boy do I wish my local library would add the DiLorenzo book so I could read what all the FReeper fuss is about. :-/

foreverfree

84 posted on 05/08/2002 6:38:07 PM PDT by foreverfree
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To: Korth
All this Abraham Lincoln bashing as of late is little more than blatant propaganda by the Liberal Fascist Left to discredit and slander the reputation of one more great American icon in their mission to shake the foundation of the dead-white-straight-Christian heritage of the U.S.

Evidently they feel by demonizing the Mount Rushmore quartet (Jefferson, Lincoln thus far) one by one, the Left can better "inform" the masses America is a "sham and fraud".

Washington and Teddy Roosevelt undoubedly are next on the "hit" list.

95 posted on 05/09/2002 6:05:44 AM PDT by F16Fighter
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To: Korth
Read on.

'The Civil War marked a decisive turn in the nature of American rationality. Buried forever was the notion of the Union as a voluntary confederation of sovereign states. The word "Union" gradually gave way to "nation". The name "United States" became construed as a singular rather than a plural noun. The war strengthened the national government at the expense of the states. Before 1861, only the post office among federal agencies touched directly the lives of most Americans. Citizens paid their taxes to local or state governments and settled most of their disputes in state courts. For money, they used the notes of banks chartered by state legislatures.

When war came in 1861, the President called first on the state militia. State governors took the lead in recruiting, equipping, and officering the volunteer regiments. But the centralizing pressures of war changed all this. By 1863, the War Department prescribed enlistment quotas for states and drafted men directly into the army if states failed to meet quotas.

The President declared martial law and stationed soldiers in every state, where their powers of detention superceded those of even state courts. The US government levied a host of direct taxes and created an internal revenue bureau to collect them. It printed paper money, established a national banking system, and taxed state banknotes out of existence. It confiscated property and freed the slaves of southern citizens, and it set up a social welfare agency- the Freedman's Bureau- to override state law in the governance of the freed people.

The first eleven amendments to the constitution had limited the power of the federal government; the 13th amendment established a precedent by which the next six amendments restricted state powers or expanded those of the national government.'

~ Ordeal By Fire by McPherson / The Imprint of War pages 525- 526.

Was Lincoln a tyrant? Yes. A Champion? Yes, of the freed black people and the abolitionist north, even though they steered him leftward throughout his entire administration.

Lincoln was both tyrant and champion, but he surely didn't respect the constitution of the United States of America.

121 posted on 05/09/2002 12:12:47 PM PDT by jumpstartme
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To: Korth
There was an interesting discussion between Dickinson, Wilson and Madison at the constitutional convention of 1787. John Dickinson likened the states to the planets of the solar system and accused James Wilson of wanting to destroy those planets. Wilson responded that he only wanted to prevent the states from destroying the nation. James Madison added, "This prerogative of the General Govt. is the great pervading principle that must controul the centrifugal tendency of the States; which, without it, will continually fly out of their proper orbits and destroy the order & harmony of the political System."

What people are looking for is for those proper orbits that they feel have been lost over time. But surely the way to do this isn't to champion those who would have the states destroy the union. The Jeffersonian "Old Republic" based on an understanding of the Constitution that many of the founders did not accept, was destroyed by the rebellion of 1860-5. Whatever came afterwards would not correspond to the vision of Jefferson, or to that of Washington, Adams and Hamilton. Had the rebels succeeded, one would still have reason to mourn the passage of an age of peace, progress, and freedom.

What all this Lincoln bashing is, in the end, is the story of the Garden of Eden or Pandora's Box, a myth of innocence lost, and explanation of how evil entered the world. Such myths are appealing and moving, but surrendering to them can be dangerous.

154 posted on 05/09/2002 2:19:34 PM PDT by x
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To: libwhacker
ping
208 posted on 05/31/2002 5:47:41 PM PDT by MarMema
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To: Korth
No one gave a link to this reply to Metcalf, so I thought I would take the opportunity.

Reply to Geoff M.

cheers,

Richard F.

209 posted on 06/11/2002 11:17:29 PM PDT by rdf
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