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Primate ancestor lived with dinos
BBC ^

Posted on 04/18/2002 1:58:34 PM PDT by JediGirl

Primate ancestor lived with dinos

The common ancestor of humans, monkeys, apes and other primates may have arisen much earlier than previously thought.

New research suggests the animals from which humans could have emerged were living in the tree tops 85 million years ago, when the dinosaurs still ruled the Earth.

Common ancestor of primates (Field Museum, Chicago)

What the earliest common ancestor might have looked like

Until now, the widely accepted date was 65 million years ago, about the time when the dinosaurs died out.

But a team of scientists in Britain and the United States has analysed gaps in the fossil record and come up with a new figure, some 20 million years earlier. It means the whole story of primate evolution may have to be rewritten.

The new theory challenges the idea that primates were unable to make their mark on the planet until after the demise of the dinosaurs.

It also suggests that continental drift played a role in how primates evolved in different parts of the world. It even has implications for our own descent - the first humans may have appeared about eight rather than five million years ago.

Jigsaw puzzle

The research, which was revealed in the scientific journal Nature, is based on a statistical analysis of evidence from the fossil record.

According to a computer model, no more than 7% of all primate species that ever existed have been dug up.

Co-author Robert Martin, of the Field Museum in Chicago, US, said current interpretations of primate and human evolution were flawed because palaeontologists had relied too heavily on direct interpretation of the known fossil record.

He said: "Our calculations indicate that we have fossil evidence for only about 5% of all extinct primates so it's as if palaeontologists have been trying to reconstruct a 1,000-piece jigsaw puzzle using just 50 pieces."

Primates

Six subgroups exist today - lemurs, lorises, tarsiers, New World monkeys, Old World monkeys, apes, humans

Dwarf lemur is closest modern match

Primitive primate ancestor was small-brained

According to the new work, the earliest common ancestor of all primates was probably a nocturnal, tree-living creature with grasping hands and feet.

It weighed just a few pounds and dined on fruit and insects.

The females gave birth to a single offspring, which clung to their fur.

Co-author Dr Christophe Soligo of the Natural History Museum in London, UK, said the new work put specific events within primate evolution into a very different context.

"The world 85 million years ago was very different to the world 65 million years ago," he told the BBC.

"What we demonstrate is that modern orders of mammals appeared well before dinosaurs disappeared so the initial divergence of modern orders of mammals cannot be the result of the extinction of the dinosaurs."

"We will have to look at new mechanisms of how and why these oldest ancestors evolved"


TOPICS: Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: crevolist; dinosaurs; evolution
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1 posted on 04/18/2002 1:58:34 PM PDT by JediGirl
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To: *crevo_list;PatrickHenry;RadioAstronomer;jennyp;Junior
bump
2 posted on 04/18/2002 1:59:23 PM PDT by JediGirl
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To: JediGirl
If the latest ape/like to human scenario is analogous to a jig-saw puzzle with 95% of the pieces missing, how much confidence should we have in the underlying premise i.e., that man shares a common anscestor with the apes?

Brian.

3 posted on 04/18/2002 2:07:17 PM PDT by bzrd
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To: JediGirl
My astrologer says this could or not be true.
4 posted on 04/18/2002 2:10:43 PM PDT by GatĂșn(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)
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To: bzrd
You miss the point. The amount of evidence or even the veracity of the evidence is irrelevant. Evolution is a fact.
5 posted on 04/18/2002 2:14:18 PM PDT by keta
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To: JediGirl
Tree shrews.
Evolutionary biologists have long suggested tree shrews as the prototype for primate ancestry. These were the among the small mammals which survived the extinction of the dinosaurs.
6 posted on 04/18/2002 2:14:38 PM PDT by stanz
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To: JediGirl
The females gave birth to a single offspring, which clung to their fur.

One can deduce this from a few scraps of bones? I, for one, am curious how such ideas can be substantiated.

7 posted on 04/18/2002 2:25:16 PM PDT by Cleburne
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To: Cleburne
The females gave birth to a single offspring, which clung to their fur.

ha.
Bwa-ha.
Bwa-ha-ha.
ba-haha-haha-haha-haha-haha-haha-ha.

ahem.

Excuse me for laughing.

They know this...how?

8 posted on 04/18/2002 2:28:36 PM PDT by ImaGraftedBranch
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To: JediGirl
Reminds me of a story I heard about two members of the Israeli knesset who were traveling on the same flight back in the 1970s. They were friends even though they came from opposite ends of the political and moral spectrum.

The liberal one marvelled at the conservative one, because the young sons of the conservative man approached his father periodically during the flight to make sure he was comfortable, to see if he wanted a drink, etc.

"I must say," the liberal finally spoke up, "I admire your children for the respect they show you -- My children don't treat me nearly as well as yours treat you."

"That is because you support the theory of evolution," the conservative said, "Your children don't respect you because they think you are one step closer to a monkey than they are. My children respect me because I am a creationist -- they know I am one step closer to the Divine source of life than they are."

9 posted on 04/18/2002 2:29:08 PM PDT by Alberta's Child
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To: JediGirl
From the lead article:
According to a computer model, no more than 7% of all primate species that ever existed have been dug up.

I need to know a lot more about the assumptions going into this guy's computer model. We routinely scoff at the ID crowd with their alleged models "proving" that evolution is impossible; and the same skepticism should be applied across the board. (But I suspect the article in Nature covers this fairly well.)

10 posted on 04/18/2002 2:31:38 PM PDT by PatrickHenry
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To: Alberta's Child
That reminds me of the story that creationists tell made up stories.
11 posted on 04/18/2002 2:31:40 PM PDT by jlogajan
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To: ImaGraftedBranch
They know this...how?

"... was probably a nocturnal, tree-living creature with grasping hands and feet."

It's called extrapolation from various clues. All scientific evidence is qualified with "error bars", i.e. probability statement.

Only religious cranks arrogate to themselves absolute certainty.

12 posted on 04/18/2002 2:35:43 PM PDT by jlogajan
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To: JediGirl
Disney took a lot of heat from critics of all sorts for portraying primates co-habitating with dinosaurs in their CGI flick "Dinosaur." Now, it looks like they were right all along!

That is, of course, if you BELIEVE in evilution, which I still have some very significant problems with. But I'm a firm, entrenched, resolute beiever in de-evoloution. I see examples of it on Free Republic all the time...

13 posted on 04/18/2002 2:41:26 PM PDT by Ronzo
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To: keta
Evolution is a fact.

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA. Prove it!
14 posted on 04/18/2002 2:46:39 PM PDT by AdA$tra
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To: jlogajan
question: is evolution an absolute certaintly or not?
15 posted on 04/18/2002 2:47:01 PM PDT by keta
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Comment #16 Removed by Moderator

Comment #17 Removed by Moderator

To: keta
You miss the point. The amount of evidence or even the veracity of the evidence is irrelevant. Evolution is a fact.

You miss the point. The amount of evidence or even the veracity of the evidence is irrelevant. Evolution is a doctrine.

18 posted on 04/18/2002 2:56:46 PM PDT by arthurus
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To: Norvokov
In some circles, I haven't heard the word "theory" associated with evolution in many years: either by my colleagues or by mentors such as Lewontin. Perhaps I should tell them that they belong to a class different from one you mentioned.
19 posted on 04/18/2002 2:58:49 PM PDT by keta
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Comment #20 Removed by Moderator


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