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First Napoleonic mass grave uncovered in Vilnius
Times of India ^ | APRIL 09, 2002 | Unknown

Posted on 04/10/2002 12:31:59 PM PDT by Korth

VILNIUS: Researchers are rushing to remove hundreds of skeletons from a mass grave of Napoleonic soldiers discovered on a Vilnius construction site in a find that promises to offer fresh insights into the disastrous 1812 campaign to Moscow.

The remains of an estimated 1,000 soldiers of Napoleon Bonaparte's Grand Army were buried here as they retreated from the ill-fated campaign to Moscow, dumped in a ditch they had built when advancing on the Russian Empire.

It is the largest mass grave of Napoleonic soldiers ever found, according to Olivier Dutour, an anthropological biologist at the University of Marseille's school of medicine, who heads a five-man team from France's National Center for Scientific Research.

The remains may help anthropologists and historians learn more about the physical condition of soldiers of the Grand Army as it retreated from Moscow in 1812.

"Thanks to methods from molecular biology, we can test whether typhus, which existed in the period, was widespread in the region" and contributed to the large numbers of deaths of soldiers, he told AFP.

"What we can learn from this find is the age of the soldiers in the Grand Army and their state of health on the march back from Moscow," said Rimantas Jankuaskas, chair of the anthropology department at Vilnius University, who is leading the excavation work.

The Russians pursued a scorched-earth policy, even setting light to Moscow, leaving Napoleon's troops to freeze in the unusually harsh winter reducing the Grand Army to just one-fifth of the 700,000 men from 20 nations that it initially contained.

So far the grave site is testimony to the severe cold which claimed many lives.

"Looking at the skeletons, we can say that the bodies were buried frozen," said Dutour.

He points to a skeletal finger, the only bones recovered from one man, bent in an "abnormal" curled position.

"This man died from exposure at a temperature of around minus 30 degrees centigrade (minus 22 Fahrenheit) in a crouched position," said Dutour.

The grave was found last October as preparations were made to begin building a residential complex on land that has been used for military purposes by Czarist Russian, Polish, Nazi and Soviet troops since the end of 19th century.

Work had to quickly be suspended because of the winter, and was resumed only in mid-March after the snow melted.

Investigators originally believed the remains may have been those of Polish soldiers killed by the Soviets, but based on buttons and other articles of clothing identified them as belonging to the Grand Army.

Work is pursuing at a rapid pace because the construction company only gave researchers one month, or until April 11, to complete their work.

The scientists don't have adequate time to record in detail the position of each of the skeletons found.

"We've been forced to focus on just several individuals," said Michel Signolis, the deputy director of the French team.

The team was dispatched to Vilnius with such haste that they did not even receive a formal budget for the trip, and are sleeping at the site in an old camper made available to them by a French citizen who lives in Lithuania.

"We must keep watch over and protect our treasures from the curious" who can easily gain access to the open site, said Signolis.

The remains are being removed to Vilnius University's Anthropology Institute while a decision is taken on their final burial.

The city is "in contact with French officials to determine a dignified burial site for these soldiers," Vilnius Mayor Arturas Zuokas told AFP.

More experts from the French defense ministry were expected in Vilnius to help the Lithuanians examine the remains and review information on trenches where others soldiers may have been buried.

According to historians, the remains of some 40,000 soldiers were either buried or burned when the Grand Army fled from Vilnius in 1812.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; Russia
KEYWORDS: archeology; army; france; historylist; lithuania; napoleon; russia; soldiers
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To: JMJ333
During the great arab conquests, the moslems were only defeated 3 times--one of those times by the Franks in 732

Sad that one has to go back 13 centuries to find a French moment to be proud of. There certainly haven't been many of those in the last 200 years.

41 posted on 04/10/2002 7:18:06 PM PDT by montag813
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To: Age of Reason
Were it not for France, America might still be a colony.

Again, you're going back quite a ways there, whereas Britain--who helped us save France's sorry ass in WWII--makes me proud over and over again. Tony Blair's support for Bush's Iraq policy, despite fierce oppostion from the EU and his own party, is truly a profile in courage, despite some recent wobbling. When push comes to shove, France--who's colonial debt we have repaid many times over, in blood--has shown it's disloyalty to us again and again.

And it's appeasement of Arab criminals and tyrants is truly revolting.

42 posted on 04/10/2002 7:24:45 PM PDT by montag813
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To: MinuteGal
Will you ping me if more comes in? Thanks.

I don't know how that is actually done. If you can explain it to me, I will.

43 posted on 04/10/2002 7:26:31 PM PDT by Korth
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To: livius
Please ping me, too, if anything else comes out.

Yes, if someone will explain the process to me.

44 posted on 04/10/2002 7:28:31 PM PDT by Korth
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To: LaBelleDameSansMerci
George Washington, along with all our Founding Fathers, would disagree with you

Again, another person who has to go back two centuries to find a French moment of pride. We have repaid that colonial debt many times over, from Meuse-Argonne to Normandy to Saigon. France was Hitler's handmaiden, gleeful turning over Jews to be slaughtered, and now they are at it again, salivating at the prospect of Holocaust II at the hands of their Muslims, all while they have opposed striking back at terrorists from Libya to Iraq, West Bank to Afganistan. The appeasement and surrender disgraces go on and on.

45 posted on 04/10/2002 7:36:15 PM PDT by montag813
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To: Korth
Got me! I thought YOU knew, heheh!

Leni

46 posted on 04/10/2002 7:43:37 PM PDT by MinuteGal
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To: LaBelleDameSansMerci
Napoleon was an extremely short man who came to power in a culture of tall men--who had been articficially shortened by the guillotine.....

This is one of those histoical myths right up there with "Hilter had been a house painter" and "Marie Antoinette said, 'Let them eat cake.'"

Truth is the for his time and place Napoleon was a man of average heigh, coming in at about 5'4" tall. At that time the French army had a minimum height requirement of 4' 10", and a good number of recruits were turned away b/c the failed to met the minimum height.

The idea that Napoleon was a shrimp one part propaganda, one part due to the fact that it was not until his death that any real measurement of him was taken (for his coffin, etc.) and by that time his remains had shrunken somewhat; which is typical since the human body is 70% water.

47 posted on 04/11/2002 8:58:48 AM PDT by yankeedame
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To: SevenDaysInMay
William spoke French not Norman, he was French. BTW, so did Richard the Lion hearted who was born in France. No one ever heard him to speak one word of English.
48 posted on 04/11/2002 9:07:56 AM PDT by Eternal_Bear
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To: yankeedame
Actually, it's not a myth although there is an element of class and ethnic malice in some of the polemic concentration upon Napoleon's size. I consider it a useful metaphor for what happened to France as the pre-eminent European power and arbiter of Western Civilization in the wake of the Terror.

He was not unusually small for a Corsican, that's true. But he was noticably shrimpy compared to other Frenchmen. We know this because many contemporary commentators and diarists, male and female, noticed and commented upon it.

Average height statistics do not always give a realistic view because the tallest and shortest are allowed to skew the acutal view. In fact, the French, especially in the North, and especially among the well-fed etats, were generally "tall".

It is also interesting to note that most French leaders in history--ancien and modern--have been tall in the context of their age--as have been the majority of American Presidents. I think it's Richard Brookhiser in Founding Father--Rediscovering George Washington who has some very interesting thoughts about the profound importance of the physique of a Leader in a Republic; also, the relationship between a culture's beliefs about paternity and the health of the Republican form of government.

Many people think that, although Japan had technically thrown in the towel in the wake of Hiroshima/Nagasaki, any idea of resistance dissappeared completely when newspapers published the photo of the diminutive Emperor standing next to the giant McArthur.

I'm not sure where this is going. The Czar who neutered Nappy was (inevitably I wonder?) tall. Many of the commies who destroyed the czarist system were shrimps.

The role of diet in class conflict. The role of size in forming personality. The role of pesonality in directing actions. The role of actions in human history.

Should short men or women be allowed to hold offices of power in a country that values liberty?

49 posted on 04/11/2002 9:57:59 AM PDT by LaBelleDameSansMerci
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To: LaBelleDameSansMerci
Gleeful French-bashing and historical illiteracy seem to go hand in hand. These people probably think the History Channel is a reliable source of historical information.
50 posted on 04/11/2002 11:12:18 AM PDT by Vast Buffalo Wing Conspiracy
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To: LaBelleDameSansMerci
Should short men or women be allowed to hold offices of power in a country that values liberty?

Funny you should bring this up. I read an interesting little item in The Economist a few weeks back. The setting is China and the government was looking to hire clerks for its one of its main banks. One of the requirements was that the applicant be more than 5' tall.

Well, it turns out that one fellow is (was?) sueing the government on the grounds of discimination. He met all the other qualification but the one on height. This is blanent (sp?) discrimination because, he declared, pointing out that nearly one half of the population of China is 5' or less in height.

In response, it seems the government came down with hammers and tongs on this guy. The reason, the magazine went on to say, was not the discrimination suit itelf, but b/c this..this..."person" had actually questioned / defied/ objected/whatever a decision by the government. And the boys in Peiking were determined to squash that notion like a bug. You know, as a warning to others who might get "crazy ideas" in their heads

51 posted on 04/11/2002 3:09:08 PM PDT by yankeedame
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To: yankeedame
I can't figure out why they would have a shortness regulation for bank tellers. (this is assuming that States partake of "reason" in any meaningful sense of the word.) If anything, one would think that shortness would be an aid in avoiding bank robbers. You're right, this must be some kind of mass exercise in training people to obey irrational directives from on high without question. Sort of the way modern Americans "spring forward and fall back".

"...Of Talleyrand and The Directory's not-so vague threats against President Washington and the Congress?..."

I love Talleyrand. What a survivor! The look on his face in the painting of Napoloeon's coronation--and I have no doubt David actually saw that look many, many times--is one of the great looks in history. How I wish Washington had agreed to meet him while he was on "vacation" from the Terror. I admire both men so much I would have loved to read their opinions of one another--especially since their personalities wouldn't have been particualrly well suited but both were gentlemen. What a missed opportunity.

52 posted on 04/13/2002 7:40:28 AM PDT by LaBelleDameSansMerci
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To: angelo
And the French have been retreating ever since.

Nothing but cheese-eating surrender monkeys.

53 posted on 04/13/2002 7:55:53 AM PDT by Rule of Law
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To: Eternal_Bear
And the Marquis de Lafayette!

He was born of a distinguished family and early entered the army. Enthusiastic over the news of the American Revolution, he evaded all obstacles set in his way by the officially neutral French government and left France to join George Washington's army. He arrived (1777) in Philadelphia, where Congress appointed him a major general. He quickly won the close friendship of Washington, was wounded at Brandywine, shared the hardships of Valley Forge, and obtained a divisional command. After a trip to France (1779-80), where he negotiated for French aid, he distinguished himself in the Yorktown campaign .

Also, the French fleet's presence at Yorktown which helped corner Cornwallis in the trap laid there by Washington sealed the the victory over the British.

Sadly, France as a nation has not shown the courage of Lafayette in all its dealings in the world. But, still, there are people of courage who love freedom in every country, including France. The Resistance comes to mind!

54 posted on 04/13/2002 7:59:10 AM PDT by Freedom'sWorthIt
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To: MinuteGal
The best movie on Napoleon was "Waterloo". Rod Steiger as Napoleon and Christopher Plummer as the Duke.
55 posted on 04/13/2002 8:13:19 AM PDT by Shooter 2.5
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