Israeli Army Fires at Bethlehem's Nativity Church

Reuters ^ | Mon Apr 8,12:54 AM ET

[Jean S]

BETHLEHEM, West Bank (Reuters) - Israeli forces on Monday shot at the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem, one of Christianity's holiest sites, after a standoff with gunmen trapped inside, the city's governor said.

Photos Reuters Photo

One Palestinian policeman was killed in the shooting and the gunfire caused a fire in offices belonging to a monastery, governor Mohammed al-Madani told Reuters by telephone from inside the church. The blaze was later put out.

The Israeli army said gunmen had opened fire from the church compound and it blamed the fire on the people inside, saying they had thrown grenades.

It said two soldiers had been hurt and that soldiers had "fired toward the source of the shooting" as they rescued the wounded men.

Madani said soldiers in the municipality building 100 meters (yards) to the west and gunners in two tanks to the south were shooting at the church, which Christians believe marks the site of Jesus's birth.

It was also not immediately clear if some 200 gunmen and civilians trapped inside the church with several members of the clergy were firing back. They burst in there last Tuesday and took refuge after tanks and troops entered the city.

Army commandos were on the roof of the church, and helicopters hovered overhead.

A priest inside the church compound said: "The Israeli soldiers carried out an armed attack on the Nativity church. They set fire to the parish building in front of the basilica."

"Palestinians inside the basilica tried to put out the fire and one of them (Israeli soldiers) opened fire and killed a Palestinian. There is damage to the face of the Church itself," he said.

A Reuters correspondent watching from nearby said she heard Israeli soldiers shouting through loudhailers for those inside to give themselves up.

In Rome, the Franciscans condemned the shooting at the church.

Father David Jaeger, spokesman for custodians of Catholic sites in the Holy Land, who is currently in Rome, told Reuters: "This is an act of indescribable barbarity. It is a violation of every law of humanity and civilisation.

"It is a violation of the explicit and repeated public and diplomatic guarantees of the State of Israel with consequences that will be long-term and incalculable," he said.

The Israeli army is the 11th day of a sweep of the West Bank for militants following a spate of Palestinian suicide bombings. Its tanks and troops entered Bethlehem, just south of Jerusalem, last Tuesday.

[LarryLied]

Aren't Christians amazing? We bombed our own churches to save Europe from fascism and to liberate the concentration camps. Fat lot of thanks we get for it today though.

[Shooter 2.5]

It means that the Monastary and it's civilian casualties were a victim of a battle where thousands died. Not exactly a group of Italian soldiers inside a church who refuse to leave because they're surrounded by troops. By the way, I'm trying to contact the guy who's father was there. I left a message a couple of hours ago and I hope to talk to him tonight.

[Romulus]

Look, the monastary was destroyed deliberately, not in a friendly fire snafu. All deaths from war are to be regretted, but you cannot equate men under arms with refugees.

My point is that the destruction of the abbey served no tactical purpose, and that this destruction was entirely elective and avoidable.

I hope you find your guy whose father was there, but don't expect this to clear up anything for you. An ordinary soldier's view of events is limited entirely to what he's seen or heard (frequently at second or third hand). I don't think there are many soldiers whose mere presence in a theatre of war confers a global understanding of what went on.

[Shooter 2.5]

Larry, I haven't been reading the other posts so I went back to your first post where you mentioned the trains to the death camps. I think you turned this thing up a notch by not using a sarcasm tag on that one. On these message boards, there are too many people that don't read the rest of the threads before they start replying and that may be a problem.

I'm reminded of a cartoon I saw that took part in Belfast. Two snipers are zeroing in on a rabbi and one says to the other, hold it, we don't want to confuse things. The Pals don't seem to have that common sense. They hate everyone.

[Jerez]

If the Temple building wasn't important to Jesus, why did He defend it by kicking out the moneychangers? Places are important. There ARE such things as 'sacred places.' And the sense of history one gets when going into a place like the Church of the Nativity is irreplaceable. It is worth the price of a few fleeting lives -- it is the symbol of many MANY lives of faith dedicated to preserving our religious history. That some people undervalue it says more about our disposable society and its lack of values than the value of the place and the building.

[Diddle E. Squat]

I think the difference is that the Temple of Jesus' day WAS the official temple that God had allowed the Israelites to build for him. The Church of the Nativity has no such biblical endorsement nor pedigree. While I respect the symbolism it provides for many, the same symbolism could be attached to a manger scene I erect in my front yard. There really isn't any difference. I wouldn't classify placing a building in its proper context(as compared to the people, souls, relationships, and connection to God that make up the real church, which cannot be defined by a building or location, "For where two or three are gathered together in my name...") as a symptom of a disposable society, but simply a recognition of the true nature of Christianity. The souls in and around the Bethlehem building are far more important than the building(though certainly issues of respect/blasphemy towards the Lord must be considered. I wouldn't want to be a person who invaded and used a church building as a tool for sinful gain/acts.)

[Shooter 2.5]

" My point is that the destruction of the abbey served no tactical purpose, and that this destruction was entirely elective and avoidable."

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
The picture I have from that book has the Abbot with four german soldiers, two of which look like they are highly ranked. The Abbot did survive by staying in one of the cellars. The person I'm trying to contact for my own information is the son of a man who commanded troops during the battle. I'm sure he would know where their command headquarters was located.

[Romulus]

Yes, the Germans got tremendous propaganda mileage out of the whole affair. The Abbot emerged from the rubble in a very unspititual mood, and told anyone willing to listen that he had had no Germans inside his walls; that the destruction of the Abbey was a war crime. the Germans, being no fools, were happy to give to distraught old man a platform.

You can read all about it in Owen Chadwick's magnificent Britain and the Vatican during the Second World War

[LarryLied]

I think you turned this thing up a notch by not using a sarcasm tag on that one.

Guilty as charged your honor. Next time I'll wait until the predictable occurs. My sarcasm was a hangover from last night when I watched everyone from Pope John Paul to Charles Lindberg, to the USA, France, England, all of Europe, Billy Graham,our good ally Turkey, George W. Bush, Pope Pius, Ronald Reagan and Richard M.Nixon get bashed for their alleged comments or alleged actions regarding Jews and/or Israel.

[veronica]

My sarcasm was a hangover from last night when I watched everyone from Pope John Paul to Charles Lindberg, to the USA, France, England, all of Europe, Billy Graham,our good ally Turkey, George W. Bush, Pope Pius, Ronald Reagan and Richard M.Nixon get bashed for their alleged comments or alleged actions regarding Jews and/or Israel.

Lurking at DU and the Liberty Forum again? Tsk tsk.

[A CA Guy]

The billions and trillions of liquid anything don't exist as much as you think it does. I think the vast amount of wealth is in Real Estate and Art type stuff. Not cash to the level you think there is.

[Islam is a religion of piece]

I'll concede that you may be right however; they must maintain a consistent viewpoint. If your going to stay out of Nazi Germany's business in the name of self preservation, then stay out of Israeli business when their acting in self preservation. The church should not be hyper focused on self preservation, that’s our heavenly Fathers job not ours. Instead we are called to do what's right especially when it test our faith and courage. I have to admit I can imagine myself shrinking in the face of the presure the church was under. We all have a history and we all have our reasons. I'm just confused as to why the vatican is so vocal in its defense of the Palis at the expense of the Jews.

[Robert_Paulson2]

I hear you. . . am not a catholic church apologist... and know that in any human organization, there are good and evil people.

The church did not do enough. Neither did the USA, till it was too late. The blame game won't raise the dead, but it may raise the bar regarding us doing more NOW to prevent IT from happening again.

fwiw

[A CA Guy]

I think the Vatican is vocal in this limited fashion because the Pope does not want the world to fall into world war. Well have to see if this message is repeated every day or every so often.

[A CA Guy]

Nobody stayed out of the Nazi's business. The Catholic Church through its parishes saved a ton of Jews that would have died if the Pope were extremely vocal.
Nazi Germany had control of Italy and was literally surrounding the Vatican. They were all but under attack themselves.
If the Vatican wanted to use the pulpit at that time they would have been burnt to the ground and the Nazi's would have killed far more Jews.
It was known by all Catholics that the Nazi's were bad. All over the world in different countries Catholics fought in national armies against the Germans.
The Church itself did what it could through covert actions that were brave, numerous and saved a bunch of life.

If the Pope did something along the lines of what you want, many more Jews would have died.
Surely you did not want more Jewish people dead, so the wisdom of the Church during that time was proper.

[luvzhottea]

Terrible

[Islam is a religion of piece]

Thanks for the perspective, it's definatly worth examining.