The History and Meaning of "Palestine" and "Palestinians"

Tzemach Organization ^ | 04/05/2002 | oswegodeee

[Dan Day]

Before the British took over Palestine and began the process of colonizing it with Jews, there were approximately 700,000 inhabitants, a tiny poriton of whom were Jews.

I insist that you state clearly what region you are describing as "Palestine" in the above statement, and cite your source for the population figure you claim.

[rightofrush]

Palestine, like Syria, Iraq, and Jordan are artificial contstructs carved out of the Ottoman Empire by England and France for their own purposes. If you think that it was recognize inherent national populations, then why was Kurdistan ignored? Access to oil has always been the answer to any "why" for actions of western powers with respect to the middle east.

Facts to deal with:
1. Isreal has been, and will always be.
2. "Occupied lands" is an invention of the Arabs. Reconquered is the accurate adjective.
3. "Peace" will be a chimera as long as "Palestine" is not so considered.

[WFTR]

Before the British took over Palestine and began the process of colonizing it with Jews, there were approximately 700,000 inhabitants, a tiny poriton of whom were Jews. I must say that your usage of the word uninhabbited is quite unconventional.

If your statement is true, then you have raised a legitimate argument against the article. However, as Dan Day states in another post, you need to define what you are calling "Palestine" and what the source for your figure is. I was using "uninhabited" based on the claims of the article, and based on those claims, it is an accurate description.

WFTR
Bill

[traditionalist]

In the days of the Ottoman Empire, I mean the districts of Jerusalem, Nabulus, and Acre. Under the British I mean the mandate of Palestine. These two areas do not coincide 100%, but are close.

The British census of Palestine of 1922 shows 752,048. Of that number 83,790 were Jews.

You can get Ottoman census data from the late 19th century. In 1878 the Turks counted 462,465 people, 15,011 of them Jews.

To my knowledge, there is no data available on population figures immediately prior to 1917, when the British took over, but it cannot have changed much from 1917 to 1922, so around 700,000 is a good estimate. Clearly the population did not increase by 300,000 people in 5 years.

Anyway, even if we stick to the Ottoman number, 450,000 souls may be sparesly populated, but it is not unihabited.

Turkish and British census data for these years are readily available.

[MissAmericanPie]

Actually they didn't have to buy it. They prefered to buy it rather than take it. The land had already been designated as theirs, they could have taxed what few land owner's there were out of existance, but they prefered to do things in a more fair way.

[traditionalist]

1. Isreal has been, and will always be.

Israel only existed as an independent state for a few hundred years during the era of the kings, and then for a very brief time before the Roman conquest. Arabs have been living in Palestine since the 7th century.

Also, the land upon which the ancient state of Israel established itself took it from the Caananites, whom the Bible said the Israelites mercilessly slaughted.

2. "Occupied lands" is an invention of the Arabs. Reconquered is the accurate adjective.

Israel did not annex the occupied territories. Even the Israeli government does not consider them to be part of Israel.

3. "Peace" will be a chimera as long as "Palestine" is not so considered.

So what are you proposing to do with the people who beleive themselves to be the nation of Palestine? Perhaps the same fate as the Caananites?

[traditionalist]

The land had already been designated as theirs

By whom exactly? And if your answer is God, read Romans 11. The Israelites ceased being God's chosen people when they rejected teh Messiah, who established a New Covenent that supercedes the Old.

[timestax]

bumped for later bumping!!

[MinuteGal]

bttt

[StriperSniper]

FYI

History Bump

[blam]

Thanks for the ping.

"After the Exodus from Egypt — probably in the Thirteenth Century BCE but perhaps earlier — the Children of Israel settled in the land of Canaan."

IMO the Exodus began in 1628BC during the explosion of the island of Thera, the island was populated by Minoians (The Sea People) an advanced people.
The Minoian survivors of the explosion made their way to the Gaza area and established a 'beachhead' while the Jews were wandering around in the desert following the plume ('Staff by day' torch by night') of the erupting Thera.
Once the Jews arrived in Israel they were totally dependent on the Philistines (The Sea People) for all their metal works, even metal repairs.
During periods of conflict between the Jews and the Philistines, the Philistines would with-hold all metal works and supplies to the Jews. ( I assume that the Minoians were eventually assimilated into the surrounding population...and yes I do know that Minoian is mis-spelled). Also, I think there have been a number of different groups of people (at different times and places) who have been known as 'The Sea People.'

[blam]

Thanks for the ping.

"After the Exodus from Egypt — probably in the Thirteenth Century BCE but perhaps earlier — the Children of Israel settled in the land of Canaan."

IMO the Exodus began in 1628BC during the explosion of the island of Thera, the island was populated by Minoians (The Sea People) an advanced people.
The Minoian survivors (soon to be called the Philistines) of the explosion made their way to the Gaza area and established a 'beachhead' while the Jews were wandering around in the desert following the plume ('Staff by day' torch by night') of the erupting Thera.
Once the Jews arrived in Israel they were totally dependent on the Philistines (The Sea People) for all their metal works, even metal repairs.
During periods of conflict between the Jews and the Philistines, the Philistines would with-hold all metal works and supplies to the Jews. ( I assume that the Minoians were eventually assimilated into the surrounding population...and yes I do know that Minoian is mis-spelled). Also, I think there have been a number of different groups of people (at different times and places) who have been known as 'The Sea People.'

[StriperSniper]

Also, I think there have been a number of different groups of people (at different times and places) who have been known as 'The Sea People.'

A friend of mine has called me 'one of those sea people', she says even my sneakers smell like saltwater. :-)

[blam]

The Sea People? The Philistines and The Phoenicians

[Brett66]

Palestinians are Arabs, indistinguishable from Jordanians (another recent invention), Syrians, Lebanese, Iraqis, etc.

Sounds like "Palistine" is a convenient funneling area for terrorist insurgents.

[blam]

"A friend of mine has called me 'one of those sea people', she says even my sneakers smell like saltwater. :-)"

I do understand. The greatest distance I ever lived from salt water was when I lived in Houston, 'The Bayou City.'

[StriperSniper]

Looks like a great link, but way too much for tonight, I'm down to my last cup of coffee.

Have a great weekend!

[MissAmericanPie]

Oh, you know all about God's relationship with Israel do you? ROFL

You have been reading far too many Muslim rags evidently. The British Empire re-established a homeland for the Jews, they had the authority to do so as they had conquered all that land. The Jews went into the land that was established as theirs and bought out those Arabs that claimed, without any proof in many cases at inflated prices.

As far as Jericho, Ramallah, Gaza, the West Bank goes those belong to Isreal by conquest just as much as the land previously belonged to Britian. The one strong enough to hold the land, owns the land, it has been thus since the dawn of man, or didn't you know that?

The error Israel made was in allowing anyone besides Israelies to remain there. Now it's time to toss the rabble out. And the international community should back off and shut it's pie hole until this is accomplished.

[traditionalist]

The British Empire re-established a homeland for the Jews, they had the authority to do so as they had conquered all that land. The Jews went into the land that was established as theirs and bought out those Arabs that claimed, without any proof in many cases at inflated prices.

As far as Jericho, Ramallah, Gaza, the West Bank goes those belong to Isreal by conquest just as much as the land previously belonged to Britian. The one strong enough to hold the land, owns the land, it has been thus since the dawn of man, or didn't you know that?

I see, so the land is rightfully Israel's because they conquered it. Tell me then: if Israel gained the land by conquering it, why is it wrong for the Arabs to try to do the same? Furthermore, if Israel's claim is based on nothing more than the right of conquest, why is the US or any other Western power morally obliged to support Israel?

The error Israel made was in allowing anyone besides Israelies to remain there. Now it's time to toss the rabble out. And the international community should back off and shut it's pie hole until this is accomplished.

2 points:

1) I see you are on record advocating ethnic cleansing of Palestinians. If you honestly beleive such a plan is politically feasible, you are in need of a serious reality check.
2) The International Community will back off when Israel stops taking all the free money it gets from the West. Until then the West, specifically the US, gets to tell Israel what to do.