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Jesus, in the Shroud of Turin is truly a revelation
WHISTLEBLOWER MAGAZINE ^ | 3/12 | Wired

Posted on 03/15/2002 6:57:35 AM PST by OPS4

WHISTLEBLOWER MAGAZINE Evidence of the risen Christ? Special Easter report sheds new light on reputed burial cloths of Jesus

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted: March 12, 2002 1:08 p.m. Eastern

© 2002 WorldNetDaily.com

The March edition of WND's acclaimed monthly magazine, Whistleblower concludes with an in-depth and stunning report on the Shroud of Turin – the 14-foot-long piece of linen believed by many to be the burial cloth of Jesus of Nazareth.

The most studied artifact in human history, the image of a crucified man mysteriously emblazoned upon it – in a way modern technology has been unable to duplicate – is breathtaking.

Experts – the gurus of science and medicine, the professors of history and art – cannot agree on the authenticity of the Shroud of Turin. Skeptics have tried, unsuccessfully, to recreate the image they insist is a “pious fake.” Most who reject the Shroud put their faith in the carbon-14 testing results that date the linen as from the 14th century. Others respond that the storage conditions over the years and at least one fire forestall any accurate dating using carbon-14 tests.

Believers point to the growing body of scientific and historical evidence that bolster the authenticity of the Shroud.

How, ask Shroud supporters, is it possible that a clever fake shroud could be made in the 1300s as a perfect photographic negative that would not be properly “seen” until modern photography was invented? And what of the incredible fact that the fabric areas on the Shroud where the image is contained are only one fiber deep? No paint or stain would remain on the top surface of the first layer of the fibrils.

And how was a fraudulent relic-monger to know the medical truths that recent medical science has just learned? The medical details of crucifixion are so complex that no modern artist has – and no medieval artist could have – duplicated the precise geometry of the body in extremis.

And most compelling, why has no copy been achieved, given the vast science and technology at our command?

Skeptics have a difficult time, say Shroud proponents, with the mounting scientific and historical corroboration that should force an open-minded investigator to reconsider his objections.

One historian of the Shroud mused, “Their refusal to believe the evidence is itself not a scientific attitude.” The real problem, claim Shroud supporters, is not that an ancient cloth that covered a crucified victim still exists after two thousand years. Said one researcher: “Do you think that if the ancient burial sheet of a sandal maker had been discovered with a scroll that read, ‘here lies Benjamin the Sandal Maker,’ that the scientific world fall all over itself to prove that it could not be Benjamin the Sandal Maker?”

“No. They only compromise their scientific witness because the peculiarities of the wounds of this victim reveal him to be no sandal maker, but the Son of God. If they could, they would get rid of all the physical evidence of Christianity – that Jesus lived, died and was buried. And then Christians would have nothing to believe in. Then, after two thousand years, Christians would finally die out.”

The March edition of Whistleblower is dedicated to the rampant persecution of Christians in today's world. But in honor of Easter, WND's editors included this special section on the Shroud of Turin. Titled "The first Christian martyr," this eye-opening report on the Shroud – as well as the lesser known Sudarium of Oveido, believed to be the face-cloth of the entombed Jesus – begins with the reactions of visitors who view the Shroud in person:

“You look at it and you cannot escape it: His body was horribly, horribly wounded. I choked up,” said one visitor to the millennium Shroud of Turin exhibit.

Another viewer summed up his experience, “I realized that this image is a message that was left for us. The resurrection truly happened. The man they tried to extinguish, lives. And we will too, no matter what the world tries to do to us, we will rise again with Him.”

Whistleblower's special report by Mary Jo Anderson includes five remarkable, high-quality photographs taken by Barrie M. Schwortz, a member of the historic 1978 scientific team that was allowed to examine the Shroud. One of them is the full-length negative of the Shroud that clearly reveals the detailed and deeply gripping image of a crucified man.


TOPICS: Activism/Chapters; Culture/Society; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: ascendedlord; jesus; miracles; shroudofturin
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To: weikel
Do some web searching if you really want to find out about the 14C dating, and problems with it. It's really interesting. Briefly, 14C dating is usually used on items of organic origin which have been buried and isolated from the atmosphere for an extended period (thousands to a tens of thousands of years). The "Shroud of Turin" is not such an item. Its fibres are covered with a (microscopically) thick layer of gunk composed of soot, human skin oils, and bacterial growth. Logically, the gunk is newer than the underlying fibre. When you 14C date a piece of the Shroud, you're getting a mixed signal coming from both the gunk and underlying fibres. The result will be a date older than the newest of the gunk and younger than fibre. This was not known at the time the 14C test was done. It does not prove that the shroud dates from the 1st century AD, but it does show that the first 14C test was done with a contaminated sample and is not reliable. I don't know if it is possible to clean the fibres without adding 21st century contamination to them. If it is, I would like to see the test done on cleaned up fibres.

What ever its origin, it's an amazing object.

AB

41 posted on 03/15/2002 7:53:05 AM PST by ArrogantBustard
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To: weikel
Radio carbon dating is not infallible unless all factors which which need to be addressed are appropriately considered. This did not occur in the original carbon 14 tests.

A very recent book on this topic adddresses the issue of "bioplastic deposits".

When carbon dating any purely organic material like the cloth of the shroud, one has to consider the presence of a layer of organic debris called "bioplastic" which is deposited on the surface of any such material of any great age by microorganisms which have been living on its surface for many years. These microorganisms incorporate more recent carbon in surface deposits on the material as they live and die. One would assume that the older the material, the greater the impact of such deposits.

The radiocarbon testing must be limited to the actual original material. Unless the bioplastic is stripped away prior to conducting the carbon 14 test, the test material is contaminated with more recent carbon deposits, giving an inaccurate, more recent dating for the artifact than it really merits. The carbon 14 dating on the shroud material was done prior to the knowledge of the existence of this "bioplastic" and hence gave a flawed result. The test should be repeated, correcting for this factor.

Based on many other independent factors - the weave of the material - the unknown nature of the manner in which the image was formed - the inexplainable accuracy of certain anatomical and forensic features - the presence of pollen granules from plants restricted to the Holy Land - the supposed history of the Shroud itself - etc, leads me to conculde that such a test, if performed, would vallidate the fact that this artifact is, indeed, what it is purported to be - the burial shroud of Jesus of Nazareth.

42 posted on 03/15/2002 7:56:32 AM PST by ZULU
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To: weikel
You are easily fooled.
43 posted on 03/15/2002 7:57:33 AM PST by Scarlet Pimpernel
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To: weikel
I am not a doubting Thomas. The shroud will stand as the burial cloth of Jesus Christ until a time when someone can prove otherwise. We cannot duplicate the shroud today. Does anyone believe that someone in the 1300's could make something that we today cannot do, and that that fact in and of itself makes the cloth a fake. Well, if that is true I want to be the first to say that the pyramids in egypt are fakes.
44 posted on 03/15/2002 7:59:10 AM PST by LandofLincoln
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To: weikel
Did you know that the bones of the thumbs of someone crucified with nails through the wrists pull back into the palm when the person is taken down from the cross? 14th century artists sure didn't know this (look at all of the painting of Jesus being taken down from the cross that were painted during that period) and yet the shroud, when using the photographic negative, clearly shows this sublimation effect. Many, many facts like this provide evidence that this is not a work of art, but something else entirely. Is it the shroud that Jesus was wrapped in? I don't know, but my faith isn't threatened one way or the other, so I'm willing to examine the evidence.

(By the way, the carbon dating done on the shroud has been shown to have been done on a section of the shroud that was repaired when it was damaged in a fire in the 14th century. The carbon dating shows nothing more than the fibers tested came from the 14th century.)

45 posted on 03/15/2002 8:00:09 AM PST by Anitius Severinus Boethius
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To: Clara Lou
Whether the shroud is genuine or not is unimportant in the end. Faith is the issue.

Thanks for saying that...you beat me to it.

As for me, I don't care about the shroud. I don't need physical proof to accept that Christ was crucified on the Cross and rose from the dead three days later.

46 posted on 03/15/2002 8:01:49 AM PST by Tennessee_Bob
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To: weikel
Here's a link to several posts about the Shroud. Interesting facts like the pollen found on the Shroud only come from the area the crucifixion took place, and that the image is NOT made with pigmentation but from a high energy source (i.e. the Resurrection).

That being said, we shouldn't place our belief in Christ as our saviour upon the shroud but in our faith. If there's physical proof, faith is not needed, no? I believe our Lord expects more from us. Faith is a journey, not a shroud.

47 posted on 03/15/2002 8:06:57 AM PST by reegs
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To: OPS4
“No. They only compromise their scientific witness because the peculiarities of the wounds of this victim reveal him to be no sandal maker, but the Son of God. If they could, they would get rid of all the physical evidence of Christianity – that Jesus lived, died and was buried. And then Christians would have nothing to believe in. Then, after two thousand years, Christians would finally die out.”

Unlikely.

Christrianity has never relied on venerated relics for validity.
My faith does not rely on the authenticity of relics.

48 posted on 03/15/2002 8:08:46 AM PST by Jagdgewehr
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To: reegs
Whoops... here's the link:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/search?s=Shroud+of+Turin&m=any&o=score

49 posted on 03/15/2002 8:10:27 AM PST by reegs
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Comment #50 Removed by Moderator

To: ArrogantBustard
Don't waste your breathe. weikel is a 20 year old EE major, already knows everything and possesses the answers to all of lives questions.
51 posted on 03/15/2002 8:14:32 AM PST by SMEDLEYBUTLER
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To: OPS4
I don't understand all this fuss over whether the shroud was that used for the burial of Jesus and if so what is the big deal, especially for Catholics

After all isn't he present in the host at communion
So what do you need a garment for when you have the real body and blood ?
52 posted on 03/15/2002 8:15:01 AM PST by uncbob
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To: reegs
Faith is a journey, not a shroud.

Quite. Still, the shroud, what ever it is, exists. If it really is Jesus' burial shroud, I'd say it was jolly decent of Him to leave us a picture. I'd also say He did it for a reason, and we might perhaps want to contemplate what would that reason be? OTOH, if it was made by human hands in the 14th century, I'd really like to know how they did it. I'd say the hypothetical 14th century maker(s) were much more sophisticated than they get credit for.

AB

53 posted on 03/15/2002 8:15:07 AM PST by ArrogantBustard
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To: SMEDLEYBUTLER
breathe=breath
54 posted on 03/15/2002 8:15:19 AM PST by SMEDLEYBUTLER
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To: eastsider
IMHO people focus too much on this "photographic negative" aspect. Anybody that's done wood carving has done the exact same thing (in general in wood carving you cut away everything that isn't the picture, ie you make a "photographic negative"). Because it resembles something in our modern world we discuss it in those terms and people say it's "miraculous" that this "predicted" that thing. But wood carving predates Christ, the idea of working with the shadow rather than the object has been around a very long time.

Personally, the biggest vote agaist the Shroud for me is that the image in it looks like the Church art of the time: ie that the image looks like a shallow faced Western European, not like a full faced Mid-Easterner. Jesus was a green crescent Jew, he wouldn't have looked like somebody from France or England. If the Shroud didn't look just like the depiction of Jesus on the Cross I'd be much more tempted to believe it's veracity.

Finally I don't think the Shroud, or any other relic, has any bearing on the veracity of the religion itself. I could make false artifacts of Rome but that doesn't mean the Roman Empire never existed. Same thing here, so what if the Shroud is a fake, the item wasn't known (assuming it's real) for over 1000 years after Christ's death, the religion did well without it. If it proves to be a fake I don't see that as a challenge to the main tenants of the faith.

55 posted on 03/15/2002 8:16:32 AM PST by discostu
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To: weikel
Here's some stuff to chew on.

There are literally hundreds of recorded instances of religious artifact scams related to pieces of the cross and samples of blood, but there has only been one credible "burial cloth". If it was a scam, why limit it to one instance?

Couple this with the anatomical detail of the image on the cloth, i.e. nail holes in the wrists not in the hands, signs of joint stress from hanging on the cross, etc., that were not known in the 14th centuty.

Now top it off with the known inaccuracies in carbon 14 dating - organic contamination, heat/radiation exposure causing things to appear younger - and you can't conclusively say that it is not the burial cloth of Christ.

There aren't a whole lot of 14th century "scientific" methods that we can't recreate today. This "fake" would have had to be done by a genius with vast experience in biology, chemistry and physics. He would have had to have known information about the death of Christ that was not common knowledge, he would have to have a process for putting an image on cloth that has not been reproduced in the 700 or so years since him doing it, and then he would have to never use this hard earned valuable knowledge again. Ever.

I sure hope he was paid a lot for his fake.

56 posted on 03/15/2002 8:18:10 AM PST by Crusher138
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To: uncbob
So what do you need a garment for when you have the real body and blood ?

I don't need it at all. Had it never existed, my faith wouldn't change in the slightest. That said, read some of my other posts. It exists, and is a fascinating object. At least, I think it is. If you find it utterly boring, that's your affair.

AB

57 posted on 03/15/2002 8:19:53 AM PST by ArrogantBustard
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To: Stand Watch Listen
Yet, although we abound in 21st century technology, we cannot duplicate this shroud.

And we still don't know how the pyramids could be made with such precision etc etc etc to a lot of things from anchient times
58 posted on 03/15/2002 8:20:50 AM PST by uncbob
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To: weikel
It didn't really date the Shroud to the 14th century, actually. That is a long story, but here's the 20-second, highly limited version: labs that engaged in such dating methods back then were few and far between (maybe a dozen worldwide). Their precision was terrific; their accuracy was abyssmal. There were no.......NO.........calibration standards whatsoever. None. Take the same sample to ten labs, you'd get ten different answers. ALSO: the sample tested was taken from the one place on the Shroud that the team wanted to avoid; a spot that had obviously been "patched" sometime in history (remember the fire? remember how the nuns removed the Shroud and did their best to patch up the burned areas? it had been folded, the creases had been burned.......unfold it, you see the burn marks distributed accordingly). IOW, they didn't get a sample of "original" material to even test in the first place. There's a LOT more to this, BTW..............
59 posted on 03/15/2002 8:21:11 AM PST by RightOnline
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To: tiki
Never heard of it. Your point? Not jumping to conclusions, but if you're suggesting that the Shroud was painted, fuhgedaboutit. That was shot down back in '78 as even a remote possibility. Not even close. WASN'T PAINTED.
60 posted on 03/15/2002 8:23:24 AM PST by RightOnline
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