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Fundamentalists re-create Eden, with dinosaurs
The Sunday Times (U.K.) ^ | 03/10/2002 | Oliver Poole

Posted on 03/09/2002 4:05:28 PM PST by Pokey78

AMERICAN scientists are outraged over plans for a multi-million-dollar museum dedicated to telling the nation's schoolchildren that God made the world in seven days and that Darwin is a fraud.

The backers of the $14 million (£10 million) Creation Museum and Family Centre, which is to open in 2004 close to the Ohio River in Kentucky, boast that the structure will act as an antidote to the "brainwashing" taught in science museums worldwide.

Exhibits will include re-creations of the Garden of Eden and Noah's Ark. A giant double helix of DNA will be suspended in the middle of the hall in order to argue that living creatures are so complex that they could not have evolved by random mutation.

Real fossils will be used to demonstrate how scientific methods such as carbon dating can be wildly inaccurate, and life-sized dinosaurs will illustrate the belief that they lived alongside Adam and Eve in a period before the Fall, when animals, man and dinosaurs cohabited, free from violence.

Ken Ham, whose Answers in Genesis ministry is behind the project, said that the museum was a long overdue offensive against the scientific establishment.

"This is a cultural war," he said. "They need to know we're coming. We're not doing this to say: 'Here's the evidence for and against, now you decide.' We admit our bias right from the start.

"The Bible is not a science textbook. But where it touches on science, we can trust it. This is the truth."

The only other museum in America dedicated to "creationism" - the theory that the Bible's Genesis story is both literal and accurate - is at the Institute for Creation Research near San Diego in California.

It covers 3,500 sq ft and will be dwarfed by Mr Ham's Creation Museum, which will include a 50,000 sq ft exhibition hall and 47 acres of outdoor trails and displays. Some exhibits have already been purchased, including the DNA and dinosaur models, in addition to a walk-through replica of a human cell.

Answers in Genesis already puts out a faith-based family magazine, a technical journal detailing the "science of creation", a daily radio programme that is broadcast on 400 stations across the United States, and pamphlets distributed worldwide on subjects such as "Where Did the Races Come From?".

A recent survey in the magazine Scientific American reported that 45 per cent of Americans believe that God created life some time in the past 10,000 years, despite the vast majority of scientists maintaining that life in its simplest form first appeared 3.9 billion years ago and has been evolving ever since.

Eugenie Scott, the director of the National Centre for Science Education, said that the new creationist museum was a sermon disguised as scientific study intended to hoodwink the public. "The authoritarian presentation of this information is likely to confuse people into thinking that these are scientifically valid views," she said.

"Science is not a democratic process. Once an idea is proved wrong, you don't continue to present it. The idea that everything on Earth appeared all at once 10,000 years ago has been disproved."

In recent years Christian fundamentalists have been accused of targeting small towns and placing supporters onto the local boards of education in a campaign for more teaching time to be spent on creationism. Two years ago the Kansas Board of Education reversed a decision to ban mentions of Darwin in schools after a public revolt voted a number of its members out.

To the outrage of the state's scientific community, Ohio is proposing a similar initiative to forbid teaching of scientific evolution. Similar propositions are also to be debated soon in New York State and Massachusetts.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events; US: Kentucky
KEYWORDS: crevolist
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To: timm22
"If someone wanted to open a museum focused on debunking Newton"

Gravity sucks.

21 posted on 03/09/2002 4:28:36 PM PST by Rebelbase
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To: Pokey78
Ohio is proposing a similar initiative to forbid teaching of scientific evolution.

While they're at it, they better re-vamp biology and sex ed.

Leviticus 15:20 " 'Anything she lies on during her period will be unclean, and anything she sits on will be unclean.

Maybe, some basic law...

"If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, 21 but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property.

Ad nauseum...

22 posted on 03/09/2002 4:31:30 PM PST by KurzeHaare
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To: jlogajan
I would like to go there myself. I find the arguments, style, and tenacity of creationists to be very refreshing.
23 posted on 03/09/2002 4:31:41 PM PST by timm22
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Comment #24 Removed by Moderator

To: Pistias
And God prepareth the great monsters... Gen 1:21

No, those are the NY Yankees.

25 posted on 03/09/2002 4:34:34 PM PST by RJCogburn
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To: PatrickHenry
I sincerely hope this issue does not become an acrimonious debate here on FR, turning us against each other.

I fear that acceptance of the Theory of Evolution puts some of us at odds with many people on this site who deserve our respect for their political views, the moral views, and their great contributions to this site and to our country.

I am sad that a difference exists on this issue that might pit conservatives against conservatives and I hope it doesn't get blown out of proportion here in FR.

We should all be willing to man the barricades "to roll back decades of governmental largesse, to root out political fraud and corruption, and to champion causes which further conservatism in America" with any and all FReepers, without a second thought of how any of us perceives this Creationism/Evolution debate. This issue, while important in an academic sense, is truly secondary to the big issues of Individual Liberty in the USA.

26 posted on 03/09/2002 4:35:00 PM PST by samtheman
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the structure will act as an antidote to the "brainwashing" taught in science museums worldwide.

27 posted on 03/09/2002 4:35:18 PM PST by eastsider
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To: samtheman
Scientific truth does not disprove anyone's core religious faith. Those who feel the need to re-write science in order to maintain their faith:

a) have a very weak grasp on their own faith and need to re-inforce it with a "war against science"

b) misunderstand the true nature of faith and the true nature of science.

I hope you realize that everything you say, while, true, is a double-edged sword. While I agree with what you say, I would apply it 180-degrees opposite to what you might do.

To me, the creationists are correct, and everything you say is being perpetrated by fanatical evolutionists who feel their faith-based evolutionary system is being threatened by another world-view.

Evolutionists are the ones, in my view, who twist science to fit their world view.

Incidentally, if you take a survey of world religions, both ancient and modern, you will find that evolution is held by far more religious systems than is creationism.

My point being? Simply that evolution is as much a religious point of view as is creationism.

Remember, neither side lacks for PhDs to present its view with academic "objectivity."

28 posted on 03/09/2002 4:36:42 PM PST by BenR2
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To: RJCogburn
life-sized dinosaurs will illustrate the belief that they lived alongside Adam and Eve in a period before the Fall, when animals, man and dinosaurs cohabited, free from violence.

So what, Noah missed a few animals is that the explanation? Better add the Giant Sloths and Wolly Mammoths to eh?
29 posted on 03/09/2002 4:37:13 PM PST by Kozak
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Comment #30 Removed by Moderator

To: one_particular_harbour
Youza goin' ta HELL to burn in the everlastin' LAKE O' FIRE.

Ooh, cool. Sounds like an E-ticket ride!

31 posted on 03/09/2002 4:39:19 PM PST by jlogajan
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To: RJCogburn
Well that's interesting. Carl Everett, the short-fused Red Sox outfielder who has thankfully gone to the Rangers, said the dinosaurs never existed, because there is no mention of them in the Bible.

The bible speaks of the behemoth, an animal with a tail like a tree trunk. No large animal had a tail like a tree trunk except the dinosaur. And studying Genesis in the original Hebrew, there is no problem with the earth being 4 billion years old.

Job 40:15 Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox.

Job 40:16 Lo now, his strength [is] in his loins, and his force [is] in the navel of his belly.

Job 40:17 He moveth his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together.

Job 40:18 His bones [are as] strong pieces of brass; his bones [are] like bars of iron.

Job 40:19 He [is] the chief of the ways of God: he that made him can make his sword to approach [unto him].

Job 40:20 Surely the mountains bring him forth food, where all the beasts of the field play.

Job 40:21 He lieth under the shady trees, in the covert of the reed, and fens.

Job 40:22 The shady trees cover him [with] their shadow; the willows of the brook compass him about.

Job 40:23 Behold, he drinketh up a river, [and] hasteth not: he trusteth that he can draw up Jordan into his mouth.

Job 40:24 He taketh it with his eyes: [his] nose pierceth through snares.

32 posted on 03/09/2002 4:44:22 PM PST by #3Fan
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To: VadeRetro
There's bad science, rotten science, and Young Earth Creationism.

Actually the real truth is that there is bad science, rotten science, and evolution.

33 posted on 03/09/2002 4:44:25 PM PST by OldDominion
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To: BenR2
To me, the creationists are correct, and everything you say is being perpetrated by fanatical evolutionists who feel their faith-based evolutionary system is being threatened by another world-view.

I disagree with you on this issue. I'm sure there are many other issues that you and I agree on and which are more important (in terms of the purpose of FR) than this one. We will not "finally prove" evolution, or "finally disprove" evolution, here in FR. We may, on the other hand, accomplish other things, such as making FR a significant factor in the 2002 congressional elections, elections which will, hopefully, sweep the horrid RATS from office.

De-RAT-ing the USA is an issue with teeth, merit and practicality. And it's issues like that (the immediate political ones relating to our continued Liberty in the USA) that we should focus on here in FR. I really don't think this site is well-served by a fractious debate on this question of creationism/evolution.

34 posted on 03/09/2002 4:44:50 PM PST by samtheman
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Comment #35 Removed by Moderator

To: Pokey78
Nature.com has just provided a possible explanation for the source of all the water needed for Noah's Flood:

Earth Could Hold More Water.
Five times as much water as in all the world's oceans may lurk deep below its surface.

All you chance mutations, remember: NO profanity, NO personal attacks, NO racism or violence in posts!

36 posted on 03/09/2002 4:46:51 PM PST by adakotab
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To: VadeRetro
There's bad science, rotten science, and Young Earth Creationism

It takes a lot more faith to accept evolution than Creation.

37 posted on 03/09/2002 4:50:34 PM PST by Gamecock
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To: adakotab
Five times as much water as in all the world's oceans may lurk deep below its surface.

The bible states that it was at least partially subterranian waters that flooded the earth in Noah's flood.

38 posted on 03/09/2002 4:57:31 PM PST by #3Fan
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To: Gamecock
It takes a lot more faith to accept evolution than Creation.

Are you measuring faith in grams or liters?

39 posted on 03/09/2002 5:08:09 PM PST by jlogajan
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To: #3Fan
" Job 41:1-8 1 "Can you pull in the leviathan with a fishhook or tie down his tongue with a rope? 2 Can you put a cord through his nose or pierce his jaw with a hook? 3 Will he keep begging you for mercy? Will he speak to you with gentle words? 4 Will he make an agreement with you for you to take him as your slave for life? 5 Can you make a pet of him like a bird or put him on a leash for your girls? 6 Will traders barter for him? Will they divide him up among the merchants? 7 Can you fill his hide with harpoons or his head with fishing spears? 8 If you lay a hand on him, you will remember the struggle and never do it again! (NIV) "

Your post and this verse do not prove that Job lived in the time of Dinosaurs. This is Job explaining to his buddies what he saw when he took the kids to the Amelikite Dinosaur Science Center.

40 posted on 03/09/2002 5:17:05 PM PST by Joshua
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