U.S. Chopper Loaded With Troops Shotdown in E. Afghanistan

MSNBC Breaking Live

[RCW2001]

MSNBC reporting unknown casualties, CNN reporting multiple casualties... Developing...

[KC_Conspirator]

Could you please tell that to Tom Daschle?

And Senator Hollings while your at it? Its that garbage coming out of their mouths that emboldens our enemies. It seems like Tom Delay and Trent Lott were right to criticize them.

[A. Pole]

Not possible. There is no concensus of any kind on leadership in Afghanistan. It's primative, tribal societal structure precludes the possibility of those from one tribe permanently allying with those from a competing tribe.

What are the alternatives? I see the two - USA will micromanage and babysit Afghanistan and after a while will run away complaining about savagery and lack of thankfulness from the natives. The second is to split Afghanistan along the etnic lines (not very likely).

But I do not agree with you. Before the Soviet intervention Afghanistan was a state with an ineffectual government based on the compromise and some degree of consensus. This is the condition which could be achieved if the imperial ambitions and pride were not on the way. Anyway, YOU will have your way. People like me have little impact on the real decisions.

[Oldeconomybuyer]

07:21 PST (AP) -- Pentagon spokeswoman Victoria Clarke said she didn't know the number of wounded nor whether a search-and-rescue operation had been completed.

The helicopter, normally used to ferry special forces troops and supplies, was downed on its way to the largest battle of the five-month war so far -- an assault on suspected al-Qaida and Taliban fighters that the Pentagon says were regrouping south of Gardez.

[Oldeconomybuyer]

(03-04) 07:26 PST (AP) -- It was the first American aircraft taken down by enemy fire in the war, following accidental crashes of other craft since the anti-terror campaign opened in October.

And it was the highest number of deaths suffered by Americans in any single combat operation since the war started Oct. 7.

"We have some small numbers of U.S. troops killed," in the downing of the MH-47 Chinook helicopter, which occurred early Sunday night Washington time, Clarke said.

A defense official speaking later on condition of anonymity said at least six were dead.

[cake_crumb]

"If the weapons used against us in this battle are from Iran then there should be hell to pay over there."

It was reported about a month ago on Fox that Iran was shipping weapons weapond into Western Afghanistan, via a couple of A. Pole's wonderful warlords leaders.

There should be hell to pay, but it probably won't happen right away. As I predicted in January, we're going the diplomatic route first. It's doomed to failure, or at best only partial success, because it's the radical mullahs in Iran who weild the most power with the populace...and are on al Qauda's side.

[rightwingextremist1776]

SAVE THE NUKES FOR MECCA!!

[Charles Martel]

Anyone see We Were Soldiers this weekend...?

Yes... and the parallels with today's situation made the hair on my neck stand on end. I saw Col. Moore reviewing the details of Custer's Last Stand, then the slaughter of the French soldiers in Vietnam, and concluded that the same scenario must play out in nearly every war.

[cake_crumb]

"Then they should have been the loyal opposition in September instead of hugging GW and then backstabbing him in Feb.-March"

...don't forget October, November and December (economic stimulus, killed by presidential wannabe and MaInsane lover Daschle) of course, SOME of them were still claiming to support the war then.

[The Turbanator]

Is the loss of the life of a female pilot somehow more significant than the loss of the life of a male pilot?
Where did you read this in my post? Read my other posts in this thread. God Bless All Our Soldiers!

[Mixer]

we're going the diplomatic route first

Instead we should be taking the approch of..."bomb them now, ask questions later"

[A. Pole]

It was reported about a month ago on Fox that Iran was shipping weapons weapond into Western Afghanistan, via a couple of A. Pole's wonderful warlords leaders.

You are missing the key point. The wishful policy which refuses to adjust to the reality is doomed to such developments. Iran (and Russia) for years were fighting the Taleban (which in turn was supported by Saudies and America). Of course Iran CANNOT abandon its allies in its neigborhood. If USA insist on forcing artificially set Karzai puppet governemt it will get various noxious side effects. The key to win is to take the REAL situation into account and build on it.

Iran was the enemy of Al-Queda and SHOULD remain that way. USA did not go into Afghanistan to replace Northern Alliance "worlords" with American Marines and NGO's. It is crazy and harmful.

[Oldeconomybuyer]

Congress [Liberal Dascholes] Presses Bush on Terror War
(AP) - As the United States opens more fronts in its war on terrorism, calls are increasing in Congress for the Bush administration to better define the new military missions - and give some idea how long they might last. The Republic of Georgia, the Philippines and Yemen are just as messy and full of rival fighting factions as Afghanistan, where no U.S. exit strategy is in sight while Osama bin Laden (news - web sites) remains elusive and his al-Qaida terrorists regroup. More...

[cake_crumb]

The president asks Congress for a declaration of war. Congress then writes out the president's request and then ratifies it. In the case on post 9-11, no declaration of was was asked for by the president, and no opposition to military action was made by Congress. Including Democrats.

In other words, it's not up to Congress to start a war. It's up to the president of the United States, first and foremost.

[Scott from the Left Coast]

We lost more heroes this morning. It is a bad day when good American fighting men are offed by the human equivalent of a nest of scorpions.

Only way to even approach making their demise meaningful is to wreak complete destruction upon our enemy and our enemy's cause all around the world.

[b4its2late]

VERY doubtfull

I tend to agree.

[fix]

Lets clear up some confusion. The H47 and H46 are products of the Boeing Vertol company in Philidelphia PA. They are not the same plane. The H46 is not the H47's little brother any more than the H60 is the H53's little brother. They are two totally different aircraft that share a similar design and a few common parts. For the record, they are both extremely safe, reliable aircraft. The tandem rotor design is extremely stable and very agile at the lower speeds involved in approaching LZs. Both aircraft are combat worthy. They are not easy to take down. I'm growing weary of all the arm chair "wing commanders" who speak of things they know nothing about. Were I given a choice of aircraft to fly into a known hot zone, I'd take one of these any day of the week over anything else in the inventory. Those in the know would probably do the same. Now for a little recognition help... The major airframe differences between the two are as follows: The 47 has external engines. The 46 has internal engines. The 47's engines are visible on either side of the aft section of the plane just below the pylon structure. The 47 has fuel tanks running along the length of the cabin section. The 46 has "stubwings" that only run about a third of the way up. The 47 has 4 point landing gear. The 46 is a "tricycle". If you're around a Navy or Marine installation, 99% of the time you are seeing 46s. If you're around an Army base, 99% of the time you're seeing 47s.

[cake_crumb]

"I don't think America is ready to trade Bush right now for another "Bend over honey, the war can wait" Clinton right now."

Let's hope and pray and keep our fingers crossed that you're right, and that the American public recognizes Dashless Daschle's 1992 left-wing strategy for exactly what it is.

[TexKat]

What gives you the impression that I do not support our men and women.

My son is in the army, and has been going on ten years.

Just because I say I saw this coming, does not mean that I do not support our military.

But every since we stopped hearing about the continuous bombing at Tora Bora, and started hearing about the sneak attacks of Alqueda, Taliban, (secret tunnels, enemies showing up out of nowhere. Osama and Omar, no where to be found. It is common sense to know the fighting was not over in Afganistan. All I'm saying is, I saw this coming. And God bless our sons and daughters.

[Illbay]

Women don't fly choppers in combat. Check the rulebook.

And your wise-a** attitude seems to indicate you have a serious lack of self-esteem. Watch more Oprah.