FR LIVE EVENT-Olympic Scandal Press Conference..

MSNBC.com ^ | February 13, 2002 | Kelly O' Donnell

[codebreaker]

Sandra Bezic with the commentary..

[colorado tanker]

My, I'm shocked at all this unilateralist talk among the Canadians and Americans. As Signor Zamboni made clear in the press conference, the European skating officials, like their brethern in the EU and NATO, make decisions in a collegial fashion, looking to the greater good of the sport as a whole, taking into account the justified sensibilities of oppressed peoples like the Russians, who lost the Cold War because of that darned right-wing American, Ronald Reagan. On the other hand, the unilateralist North Americans are looking at the problem in a simplistic fashion, that is who won and who lost, which is entirely innappropriate for such a complex problem. You simple-minded Americans just need to trust the multinational organizations to address these kinds of complcated international issues.

[RightlySo]

With the rules as they are, considering BOTH the short and long programs the Russian's won fare and square. Anybody who doesn't like it just being obsessive

Obessive? Costas reports an admission by the French judge seen on television by many here, not just myself who reported this thread last night: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/fr/626879/posts?page=1,100

There are serious allegations of collusion between judges, and Costas reports that the French judge admitted it! Also, in a VERY rare scene, several JUDGES APPROACHED reporters within minutes of the conclusion of the competition to report suspected abuse, collusion, bribery among their own panel!

So you think being angered by collusion is obsessive? You really do have thick, rosy glasses.

[discostu]

There's no rose in my glasses. I thought the press presented their usual pathetic self at the ISU press conference and most of their questions didn't deserve an answer the first time they were asked and they pretty much asked the same couple of questions over and over.

I guess it all depends on where you sit. Here on FR when Rumsfeld berates a reported for asking a stupid hypothetical question we all love him for it. When what'sisname from the ISU does the same thing everybody makes fun of him. Personally I think all hypothetical questions should be mocked. Journalists are here to report on what is, not what could happen "if..."

[codebreaker]

North America unites!

[LibertarianLiz]

He is saying that they reviewed the performances and that the Russians deserved the gold. At least that's how I understood it.

Last night, Scott Hamilton took some film clips of both pair skaters and showed them side-by-side. It was clear that the Russians had made a big goof on one jump, while the Canadians had performed the exact same jump perfectly. Also, the throws were shown side-by side, and it was clear that the Canadians did a much better (and smoother) job at landing. However, three judges gave them tied marks on the "technical" portion of the grade. The Russians were not marked down for their flubs.

He decided after thinking it over, and he said, speaking to several people that he trusted; that, indeed, the Canadians had won the event.

[DallasGal]

You need to sic Miss Nancy on ISU, IOC, and the judges.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion; however, when you look at the jumps side by side as shown on NBC last night during one of the breaks, you can see that Jamie and David were much smoother and far better. She was pouring coffee in a coffee house and he was selling beer at hockey games.

[discostu]

Those are the allegations. But you can't just assume the DID happen. What I'm trying to present here is a possible completely legitimate reason why the Russians could have won. This is easy for me because I really didn't like the Canadian performance. While it was technically very well done it did not appear as challenging (and all the FS "experts" say the Russian routine had a higher difficulty rating) and was not (to me) as asthetically pleasing. I am presenting why I, were I a judge at that even, would have scored the Russians higher and proudly voted them for the gold. In presenting why 1 person, without collusion or scandal, could make such a decision I'm trying to help show how 5 of 9 judges could. There's a general assumption on these threads that because the judges didn't agree with you that must mean it was fixed. I'm presenting the apparently shocking possibility that maybe the judges honestly don't agree with you. Unlike FS judges I'm not just throwing out a couple of numbers, I'm giving you explicit reasons why I felt the Russians were better. You might not agree with them but that's not the goal. The goal is to show that there isn't automatically collusion just because the judges don't agree with the audience. There still could have been collusion, I'm not ruling it out. I'm saying the rankings in themselves do not prove it was fixed.

[writmeister]

Yes. And Oksana is a booze-hound who has told so many versions of her tragic childhood that the truth will probably never surface.

[discostu]

There's a rule written down that the artistic merit (a purely subjective rating) is 50% of the score. Looking at it in the school grades model that means technical perfection but artistic nothing still rates an F.

[Bikers4Bush]

A better question is it human? I've never met anyone who's eye's glow yellow.

[Osinski]

Ah yes the court of public opinion.

Thanks for your post. After watching the ugly display of media at the press conference, I think this guy should be in line for a diplomacy.

[discostu]

Thus proving why judged sports are inferior to scored sports.

Can't wait for the US Canada show down for the gold in that one.

[DJ88]

"This is easy for me because I really didn't like the Canadian performance."

And therein lies the proof we all needed to show why you think the Russians should have won it...you didn't like the Canadian performance, therefore, the Russians deserved to win. That's IT. All your gobbely gook about "technically better" and "retreads" is just a bunch of malarky.

[colorado tanker]

North America unites! Works for me. Let's try the crooks in the US and then send them to a very cold prison way, way up in the Canadian north.

[Osinski]

the polls are pretty clear. Most people are seeing something you didn't see

That's what they said about krinton.

[SJackson]

If it were a matter of routine diffulty, wouldn't the Russian and French judges rated the Russian Skaters higher on the technical score, rather that presentation?

[discostu]

Somethings were better. In giving my opinion it's heavily influenced by my hatred for Love Story and industrial gray. Commish in post 346 put together a really nice scoring breakdown. Basically what he shows is that the Canadians DID win the long competition, but not by a big enough margin to overcome how the Russians beat them in the short (inspite of the 1/3 - 2/3 weighting the give in favor of the long). Almost everybody (including myself most of the time)is judging this entirely on comparing the two long performances, that's not how the medal is won. It's a combined score.

[codebreaker]

Is the 3.0 from the Italian judge?

[discostu]

Check deeper into that thread. Costas was discussing a hypothetical that someone else had mentioned. Unfortunately large numbers of people missed where he indicated it was a hypothetical situation and have run off with it as an actual event. Had any of the judges actually openly admitted to fixing it I'd be on the other side of this debate (which wouldn't be a debate anymore).

[blue jeans]

As to them giving gold to the Candians.... it only matters so much as to how 'marketable' the Canadians are (i.e. can they get a $200K contract with Nike or Roots).

Aside from those Canadians possibly getting jipped out of making some big(ger) bucks by Wheaties box deals... the gold medal itself means nothing. The guy in the team said so last night... he said something like: 'we did the best we could and we're happy with that'.... 'Whether it's gold or silver... doesn't matter'. A very classy guy.

Now that there's speculation (not much though) that he 'could' get the medal... it doesn't mean anything now anyway. Look at who the athletes represent vs where they live? Folks from all over... big bucks flying around... shoot, I'd bet that the equipment is far from equal (a liquid graphite coating on the runners of our skeleton sled) so that in the end... what are we really even comparing? Folks scores and times... or instead who can by the best equipment and training? Or who can cut the best deal with the Euro-judges.

I ask all of you... if you were the Candians and you finally given the gold medal... would it mean even a third as much to you as it would have a week or two ago? To me... not only is the sport a sham... but the whole Olympic games mean a heck of a lot less (and it's been going that way for a few years now).

With 'demonstration' sports and the allowing of professionals in some of them and skating exhibitions at the end (for TV ratings)... it's so corrupted by it's need to be entertainment... that who really cares anymore?