Scalia Questions Catholic Opposition to Death Penalty

Fox News | Tuesday, February 05, 2002 | AP

[meandog]

They should...the principle of judging is to be fair. If any judge is against anything you've cited, how can he/she be fair?

[jwalsh07]

Cardinal Dulles' synopsis on Catholicicm and the Death Penalty with thanks to the fella who supplied the link.

"In a brief compass I have touched on numerous and complex problems. To indicate what I have tried to establish, I should like to propose, as a final summary, ten theses that encapsulate the Church’s doctrine, as I understand it.

1) The purpose of punishment in secular courts is fourfold: the rehabilitation of the criminal, the protection of society from the criminal, the deterrence of other potential criminals, and retributive justice.

2) Just retribution, which seeks to establish the right order of things, should not be confused with vindictiveness, which is reprehensible.

3) Punishment may and should be administered with respect and love for the person punished.

4) The person who does evil may deserve death. According to the biblical accounts, God sometimes administers the penalty himself and sometimes directs others to do so.

5) Individuals and private groups may not take it upon themselves to inflict death as a penalty.

6) The State has the right, in principle, to inflict capital punishment in cases where there is no doubt about the gravity of the offense and the guilt of the accused.

7) The death penalty should not be imposed if the purposes of punishment can be equally well or better achieved by bloodless means, such as imprisonment.

8) The sentence of death may be improper if it has serious negative effects on society, such as miscarriages of justice, the increase of vindictiveness, or disrespect for the value of innocent human life.

9) Persons who specially represent the Church, such as clergy and religious, in view of their specific vocation, should abstain from pronouncing or executing the sentence of death.

10) Catholics, in seeking to form their judgment as to whether the death penalty is to be supported as a general policy, or in a given situation, should be attentive to the guidance of the pope and the bishops. Current Catholic teaching should be understood, as I have sought to understand it, in continuity with Scripture and tradition.

[victim soul]

Too bad he didn't speak out against the death penalty for unborn American children. No even after a majority of his "colleagues" decided infanticide is moral and legal.

I can't but wonder why Judge Scalia never commented publicly on the 4000 death penalties sanctioned by his court each day on the most innocent of us all since Roe v Wade 1973.

[DaveyB]

…True man does sin by demanding using this autonomy…

Autonomy: from Autos meaning self + nomos rule
lit. self-rule

To be ruled by self is to be not under the rule of God and therefore outside his kingdom. It is in fact the state of sin or separation from God. When one repents, they humble themselves from self-rule and place themselves under the authority or rule of God.

One cannot be fully devoted to God and deny His authority in their professional life - even in the civil magistrate.

[xkaydet65]

Church opposition to the death penalty is not dogma, but current interpretation of the message of Christ. Unlike the matter of abortion which is held to be the taking of innocent human life, the stand on the death penalty is one that John Paul would want each Catholic to accept, but which is not imposed as a matter of Church dogma. Consider it in a similar vein as Churh teachings about responsibility to the poor. Many Catholics would be in opposition to this teaching if they voted for many conservative politicians in America, as institutions like welfare, and open borders for workers, and unions are central to current Catholic ideas about people's individual and collective responsibility, but no Church leader has ever insisted that failure to accept these attitudes puts a believer outside the Church. So Scalia is in no danger here. But On e question in his presentation intrigues me. He says that a Catholic who follows the Church's teaching on the death penalty cannot be faithful to his oath. Would not the same be true of a Catholic judge who accepted Church teaching on abortion and ruled as such from the bench in contravention to the law.?

[chatham]

I don't think this is doctrine of the church but is a position the Pope and his clergy "SUGGEST" we follow. As opposed to doctrine put forth by the pope under the rules of Infallibility .

In the latest Catechism of the Catholic Church "The Death Penalty " is allowed but as a last resort when the state can't protect the public good from the criminal in any other way.

This anti death penalty only became a cause of the church in the last few years, perhaps 1997 or so.

[SoothingDave]

Ok, I can't resist. ...In his heart of hearts, Justice Scalia is too intelligent to be a "good" catholic. Who knows, praying to the goddess Mary may be next to go?

Next time, resist.

SD

[montag813]

This Pope is pathetic hypocrite. He claims to oppose a "culture of death" yet never misses an opportunity to kiss Yasser Arafat's a$$, and appease the radical Islamists at every turn. Most Catholics I know are waiting for Ratzinger to take over and restore order.

[RLJVet]

Too bad he didn't speak out against the death penalty for unborn American children. No even after a majority of his "colleagues" decided infanticide is moral and legal.

If he had, these threads would have a very different tone and angle, whereas on principle, they shouldn't. I can't but wonder why Judge Scalia never commented publicly on the 4000 death penalties sanctioned by his court each day on the most innocent of us all since Roe v Wade 1973.</>

Wait till you find out the real numbers. 4000 is like two weeks. Find "Priests for Life". All the facts are there.

[HOYA97]

Please call the RNC and have Racicot tell Bush to go before the cameras and state his case about the stimulus package.

The number is (202) 863-8500

[Hank Kerchief]

Basically its a choice of allegiances, to the US or the Vatican. If a judge feels he must obey the ruler of the Vatican, then he should resign. No man can server two countries.

[Campion]

Scalia is dead right about the death penalty and Roman judges. If the Roman judges can't take a separate church/state position, they're unfit for the bench!

And that's exactly the same thing Planned Parenthood says about abortion. Hope you like baby-killers, because you're in league with them.

[Campion]

Basically its a choice of allegiances, to the US or the Vatican. If a judge feels he must obey the ruler of the Vatican, then he should resign. No man can server two countries.

The next time your fundie pals trot out that nonsense about how God's mission for the United States is the preservation of Israel, I hope you're there to set them straight.

In the meantime, what do you plan to do with the millions of fifth-column Vatican agents in this country? We aren't going to leave, and you aren't going to shut us up. What do you propose? A Constitutional amendment restricting Papists to harmless occupations, like picking up garbage or trimming poodles?

[Hank Kerchief]

In the meantime, what do you plan to do with the millions of fifth-column Vatican agents in this country? We aren't going to leave, and you aren't going to shut us up. What do you propose? A Constitutional amendment restricting Papists to harmless occupations, like picking up garbage or trimming poodles?

If that's how you want it, to each his own.

Frankly, I don't care what you or the judges do, and I think you have me confused with someone else. I'm an autonomist. I was only pointing out the immorality of a judge who would obey the laws of another country over the laws of the one that made him a judge assuming he would be obedient to the laws of his own country.

The Autonomist's Notebook

[RecallJeffords]

First of all no Catholic prays to the goddess Mary. If you’re going to make ignorant statements at least identify yourself Hillary. Catholics only pray to God. We adore Mary like you would look fondly on a picture of your mother. We ask her to be our mediator in our prayers occasionally because we suppose she is a tad closer to her Son than are we. Secondly, the Catholic Church’s teaching on infallibility is only applicable to the pontiff when, in conjunction with the Magisterium (the conference of Bishops), they issue a teaching on faith or morals. The Church is depressed by the culture of death and part of linking the death penalty with abortion and euthanasia is not only consistent doctrinally it puts the leftist whackos in their own moral dilemma. It’s the reverse of what we may think. “Golly-gee if I oppose putting a serial murderer to death because death is bad then I guess that killing innocent, defenseless babies must be bad too”…a reach in logic for the left but worth a shot. Thirdly, an encyclical is just a Papal letter. It has no binding authority doctrinally. Doctrinal changes are normally made only at Church councils which on average occur centuries apart. Encyclicals are the personal published wisdom of the current Pope, and are opinion influenced by faith and reason. Apparently, the Rome haters protest too much when they react to the opinion of the Pope so violently but don’t get too excited when their own series of “preachers” slide off the straight and narrow. By the way Bob Locke, who do you think assembled the bible?