If you die tomorrow, what does your family need to know today? (Lawyer Needs Freeper Help)

JD86 | 12/06/01 | JD86

[JD86]

If you die tomorrow, what does your family need to know today? (Lawyer Needs Freeper Help)

I'm an attorney who helps clients with estate planning and other money matters, but I won't claim that I "know it all". I need Freeper advice.

I once had an elderly client who always told his family "When I die, everything you need is in the manila folder". When he died, we searched high and low but we never did find that folder. As a result, it took years to settle his estate.

That shouldn't happen. I am putting together a booklet for my clients - a checklist of sorts - to help them keep track of important family information.

I'm asking for your suggestions. What would you include in such a checklist?

First - the practical. Doctor's name, where's the will, your desires regarding any minor children ... what else?

Second - the emotional. Would you tell your children you are proud of them? To stop smoking? Dump their lousy mate? What else?

Is there anything you would change about what your parents did? Have you made a checklist yet? If so, what's on it?

Also, if you are incapacitated but don't die, what then?

I have a client who has all her medications listed and taped to the inside of her kitchen cabinet and all her family knows where to find it. Do you have any other ideas like that?

Thanks to all in advance for your suggestions. Please post or send me FreeperMail.

[JD86]

If there is a large family involved, or if there is an inheritance to be split between relatives, by all means put it in an IRREVOCABLE TRUST! Even wonderfully agreeable family members get into fights over who gets what after the funeral. Carve the inheritance in stone, so NOBODY can influence it later. Also, for the sake of an uncertain future, if money is going to children of the deceased, do not allow the money to go to the children's spouses. The Will may not change, but marriages do.

Thanks for a wonderful post. You have covered lots of things that are very important. I would like to comment on this last part. An Irrevocable Trust is good in many instances, but not all. There are other ways to handle the situation, including A-B Trusts like another poster mentioned or Family Limited Partnerships. All of these have good points and bad points and the law is different in each state. I recommend that everyone talk to an attorney in their state....tell the attorney what you want to accomplish...and then let them tell you the best vehicle to use in your state.

Another point is about "in-laws". Unfortunately, you are right that not all marriages last forever. Per stirpes is a wonderful phrase. It means to follow the blood line...so if I leave something to my son and he and I are killed in the same car accident, his part would go to his daughter, not to his wife. Something to think about.

[JD86]

The guns, who is going to get the guns. THat's an issue of great importance.

This is an excellent point. Guns, as well as any family heirlooms, special things, should be mentioned specifically to make sure they get to the person you want to have them. Also, as we get older ourselves, there is no reason not to pass some things along while we are still here. My father calls that "giving with warm hands". That way you get to see your loved ones enjoy the gift.

[JD86]

I hope you come back later and read all the posts. The Freepers have had some outstanding ideas. I knew they would.

[Twins613]

That'll teach me to go to bed at midnight :) .. wonderful thread, JD!

[JD86]

Thanks for sharing your personal experience. I know as the attorney handling estates, the easiest one I have done so far was when I met with the executor and he had all the things you mentioned in a manila envelope. The driver's license, everything. That made everything so much easier.

No comments whatsoever on how the children run their lives; if a parent does the proper job it's none of his business at that point.

My only caveat here is that it would depend somewhat on the ages of the children. Once they are adults, I would agree with you. Our job as parents is to prepare them for launch into their own lives, and then let them live them. However, since I raised my sons on my own, each year while they were growing up I would write a letter and put it with my will, telling them my hopes and dreams for them, reminding them how special they are. Fortunately, mine are now grown, but I think the letters would have helped if I had died while they were still young.

[dansangel]

Hey there!

Thanks so much for providing this service. Since I'm at work right now, I've only had a chance to read through the first 50 posts and they have really given me food for thought!

This may already have been mentioned, but in the case of a second marriage where the deceased is the biological parent of children that have refused any contact with their parent, it is essential to stipulate in a Will what portion, if any, is to be left to those children. If it is the intent of the parent to leave nothing, it should be stated in the Will with an explanation as to why. This will save the surviving spouse the further grief of having to deal with children they have never met who show up just to see what they can get.

Good Luck! Can't wait to get back later and read more.....

[JD86]

I should probably get that taken care of-----soon!

Thanks for your candor...:) You probably have lots of company on this thread and you have helped them more than you know.

[JD86]

Thanks! You have posted some wonderful ideas yourself!

[JD86]

This may already have been mentioned, but in the case of a second marriage where the deceased is the biological parent of children that have refused any contact with their parent, it is essential to stipulate in a Will what portion, if any, is to be left to those children. If it is the intent of the parent to leave nothing, it should be stated in the Will with an explanation as to why. This will save the surviving spouse the further grief of having to deal with children they have never met who show up just to see what they can get.

Thanks. This is an important point that has not been mentioned. I would like to add my personal opinion about inheritances. I truly believe that no one owes anything to anyone in their will. I am not talking about minor children who you have a responsibility to provide for, I am talking about your brothers and sisters, your adult children. I believe in those cases inheritances are gifts, and that you should give those gifts to the people you want to have them. As dansangel has pointed out, you may not want to leave anything to a particular person...maybe you haven't seen them in twenty years...maybe they just aren't a nice person...or maybe they gamble and you know they would throw the money away. It doesn't matter what the reason is, it is your money, your inheritance give it to whomever you want. I would make two suggestions for you to discuss with you own attorney: How to make it clear that you are leaving the person out . And, talk to your attorney about a No Contest Clause. I use them all the time. It means the people can either say Thank You for what you did leave them, or they get nothing if they contest the Will. That may sound harsh but it stops alot of fights before they start.

[JD86]

That's the idea! Freepers helping Freepers!

[SunnyUsa]

interesting post! bump to read later!

I know that it's important to have deeds of Graves, in our family that had been a problem - and hard to resolve at the last minute... also, I learned graves can be reused (sounding of the grave?) so families can continue to be buried in a family plot.

Well, I have fleeting knowledge of this stuff, but I do remember watching the 'adults' in my life panicky and fighting over cemetary plots.

[SunnyUsa]

interesting post, FYI

[JD86]

It's also important for the families to know where the gravesite is. I had one elderly client, not married, only one stepdaughter, and when he got very ill, he asked me to go pay for his gravesite. He knew which cemetary he wanted to be buried in and the section he liked and he wanted to make sure that would be his final resting place. I took care of it and took a picture to show him in the hospital. His family never knew anything about it until after he was gone. Then I gave them all the paperwork.... Some people don't care about these things. They say when they are gone, they are gone and they don't care. But to others, it is extremely important. Better to find out now what people want to do.

[HarryDunne]

bttt

[JD86]

There's another interesting point about pre-planning funerals and all the details. I know one family where after the mother died, the three daughters got into a power play about which funeral home to use. The mother was 90 when she died, the three daughters were in their 70's. One daughter was the executrix, a good choice, she was the sanest and lived close by. She told the hospital which funeral home to take her mother to. A couple of hours later the funeral home called and said that her sister, who lived in the same county, had arranged to take the mother to another funeral home in another town in the county. The executrix called the third sister, who lived 100 miles away. She was the oldest. She called the second funeral home and told them to take the mother back to the first funeral home. Finally, I had to get involved and make sure the mother ended up at the funeral home she had picked out. It is funny now but it wasn't funny then. The mother was from a small farming community. She had never been in a limo in her life and she spent the first day after she died being driven around the county from funeral home to funeral home. It was a mess, the ultimate case of the final sibling rivalry. Never underestimate what people will do. Write everything down.

[SunnyUsa]

"Some people don't care about these things. They say when they are gone, they are gone and they don't care. But to others, it is extremely important. Better to find out now what people want to do."

That is so true! I have had relatives who on their "death bed" told us who could ride in the FIRST CAR etc (ha) It went along with how funny they were in life, at literally their last minutes, having it their way!

We had an aunt who after her two sisters died, had a few of us cousins go BUY her a GRAVE in a certain cemetary, she wanted a "view, a nice TREE nearby..and maybe a stream" No kidding...and guess what! We found one,she was happy (she wasn't dying but had been ill) She died about a year later and at the prayers at the grave we looked around and saw she got what she wanted.

The strangest experience is shopping to buy someone something to be Buried in. WE had to do that too, for a diff aunt...and without meaning to we would horrify the salesclerk, since of course no one was "trying it on" and it's purpose etc.

[JD86]

The strangest experience is shopping to buy someone something to be Buried in.

Another point about this is what people want to be buried with....personally I'd rather leave my jewelry and my Bible to my granddaughter but I have seen some people buried with them. You never know what a person wants to do, until you ask.

[SunnyUsa]

yes, I feel it's a shame to bury people with their jewelry.

It's gone forever then, and it could be a wonderful family treasure to be handed down, and cherished.

We have had the kids in the family draw pictures to "grandma/grandpa" - and a family picture, a note of love...

It's very personal, and also if people want to be buried with their jewelry...they should know that it could be stolen, once the family leaves the cemetary.

[cschroe]

I have my own "manila folder" containing the kind of info being suggested here, and my wife, mother, and sister know where it is. One thing that I have in mine that I haven;t seen here (maybe I missed it): desired funerla arrangements. Do you want to be buried? Cremated? Anything you'd like on your headstone? My funeral list includes the lessons and gospel readings I want at my service; the hymns I want sung, and the prelude and postlude to be played. It says I want to be cremated. It give specific instructions for what is to be done with my ashes. Just something else you might want to consider including.

[JD86]

We have had the kids in the family draw pictures to "grandma/grandpa" - and a family picture, a note of love...

This is a great idea. I had a friend tell me about his father's funeral. It seems that during his father's life he was everyone's confidant, children, adults. And he had a way of getting people to share their secrets with him. When anyone had a problem they couldn't talk about, he would tell them to write it on a little note and put it in his pocket...and he would carry their trouble for them. He evidently did this all his life. The family knew that he did it with them, especially the children, but they didn't know how far his influence reached. At the wake, my friend said he noticed that the pockets in his father's suit were bulging. When he invetigated, he found them full of little notes. People had been going up to the casket and leaving him a note, one last time.