Missing evidence from Oklahoma City

Indianapolis Star ^ | November 17, 2001 | JAMES PATTERSON

[OKCSubmariner]

The FBI doesn't want to talk about it, but the evidence keeps mounting.

Critical evidence that several Middle Eastern men may have been connected to the Oklahoma City bombing appears to have been kept from the public by the FBI.

[Aurelius]

BUMP

[DoughtyOne]

Ah ha ha ha ha. Ah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. I knew you couldn't pass this up. What a chump! _Jim you're the ultimate _a-- and you don't even know it. We're laughing at you sonny.

[OKCSubmariner]

BTTT and please see reply #52

[OKCSubmariner]

BTTT and please see reply #52

[Askel5]

[Communitarianism] "This is the ultimate Third Way", said Don Eberly, an ADVISOR in the Bush WhiteHouse.....

Missy Kelly Strips E.J. Dionne Naked

Last Sunday the Washington Post ran a remarkable article by E.J. Dionne, "The Big Idea" Remarkable because it amounts to a "Coming Out" for neo-communism's big new idea, The Third Way. Below, Missy Kelly analyzes and dissects a feckless Mr. Dionne and, I think you'll agree, leaves him frockless.

--Roger Schultz

[185JHP]

I've seen almost perfect overlays of this suspect with both Brescia and Strassmeier - anyway, close enough for speculatin'. IMO we may have only seen that part of X42's malefactions that relates to the part of an iceberg you can see above the water. One problem is, a lot of the corrupt media still like him - plus, do they want us to have an even better chance in the '02 elections?

[chantal7]

bump

[Robert Lomax]

For national security reasons we may not have the need to know.

[archy]

Eva, somebody posted the sketch of John Doe #2 beside a picture of a man named Asmath, who was arrested in Trenton, N.J. at the apartment where they suspected the Anthrax was mailed from. If someone could find that thread and repost it. I am convinced that it is the same guy. What I want someone to do now is to find out if Asmath was ever in Okla. City. I may send an e-mail to Jayna and see if she has any thing on Asmath. He's a dead ringer for the sketch.

Might that be the subject MOHAMMED JAWEED ASMATH described in this article? If so, since he was in custody, there should be not only photographs of him, but also a set of fingerprints should have been taken. Unless, of course, he was an FBI employee or agent or a spook in other government service.

But I believe the real John Doe II who was with McVeigh to now be deceased, probably killed by his US government employers.

SEPT 25, 2001
Prime suspects
By Louise Branson
Straits Times United States Bureau

ALBADAR AL-HAMZI, 34

A DOCTOR in his final year of a five-year residency in San Antonio, Texas, he may prove to be one of the best sources of information if he talks. He is one of four being held as firm suspects, so-called material witnesses.

He did not go to work on Sept 11 morning. He purchased tickets for at least one of the hijackers on American Airlines Flight 77, which crashed into the Pentagon. Two suspected hijackers on that flight - Nawaf Al-Hamzi and Salem Al-Hamzi - have the same last name.

Al-Hamzi may also have at one point used as an alias the name used by another hijacker on that flight, Khalid Al-Midhar. The FBI now thinks he is alive and that his identity was taken by someone else on the plane. The FBI had already been looking for Al-Midhar as an associate of Osama bin Laden.

MOHAMMED JAWEED ASMATH, 47, and AYUB ALI KHAN, 51

THEY were pulled off a train in Texas heading towards San Antonio the day after the terrorist attacks. They were carrying box-cutters similar to those used in the attacks, about US$20,000 (S$35,000) in cash and hair dye. They may have been heading to link up with Al-Hamzi and may have been part of an aborted or failed hijacking.

The two had been on board a jet which left New Jersey about the same time as the hijacked planes. Their flight was to continue to San Antonio after a stop in St Louis, but was grounded.

[N.B.: Note also the Texas-area business connections of Osama bin-Laden's deceased brother Salem bin-Laden to the Texas area via his business connections through his part ownership in Houston-area SPX airport and the Arbusto multinational oil holding company and his association with Texas middleman James Bath. The bin-Laden efforts to emplace agents in place and create *legends* and workable false identities for them may have been in place for very long periods, even decades, running clear backn to the period when the bin-Ladens were CIA assets fighting the infidel Soviet invaders in Afghanistan- it wasn't until the US *defiled* the Moslem holy places in Saudi Arabia/Mecca during George Bush's 1991 Gulf War against Iraq's invasion and occupation of Kuwait that bin-Laden became disgusted with his partnership derived from at least some common cause with some US interests.]

[OKCSubmariner]

An excellent color photo of Asmath is at this link:

http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/0,1518,157856,00.html

You need to scroll down about three and one half pages into the article to see the picture.

I will make sure Jayna Davis gets a copy of the picture for her review. You are correct about the similarities , in the eyes especially.

There were up to seven ME John Does and Asmath could look like the FBI's John Doe #2 sketch. Also the JD #2 sketch could be a composite of several of the John Does (including possibly Asmath) with features from each of several ME JD suspects combined in one sketch-sometimes the FBI does this on purpose.

[roughrider]

I'm still waiting for one of you lead nutballs to discount the widespread damage that ocurred in downtown OKC

I already addressed the damage in excruciating detail in a post from several months ago, and cited it as evidence that no ammonium nitrate-based bomb could have caused all of that destruction to surrounding structures. Even the bomb in the truck had to be made of substantially more powerful explosives. It is also interesting to note that the Athenian Restaurant was destroyed by debris hurled over distance from the Murrah Building, something like cannon balls. No ammonium nitrate based bomb would yield that kind of energy, and Neutron Bomb inventor Samuel Cohen supports that conclusion.

[archy]

The FBI doesn't want to talk about it, but the evidence keeps mounting.

You mean the nut-ball conspircy stuff keeps mounting ...

I don't believe it's *nut-ball conspiracy* believers who've profitted from the deaths of some 20 witnesses or responders to the events involving the OKC explosion. And even in Oklahoma, the stories are starting to leak out as they become too hot for the media there to continue to keep the lid on them....

-archy-/-

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/fr/569924/posts

[archy]

There were up to seven ME John Does and Asmath could look like the FBI's John Doe #2 sketch. Also the JD #2 sketch could be a composite of several of the John Does (including possibly Asmath) with features from each of several ME JD suspects combined in one sketch-sometimes the FBI does this on purpose.

And the Arizona connections of one remain interesting.

[justa-hairyape]

I remember that the first reports from OKC were all about JD#2, a possibly Middle Eastern male, who had been seen with McVeigh. Then these reports disappeared, and it was announced that Nichols (whose only resemblance is his dark hair) was the person being sought.

I remember the change over very well. Was working in Los Angeles during the time and heard a breaking news report on all news radio that they were now looking for a 'white' suspect. Of course back then the neat terms 'homegrown' and 'domestic terrorist' had not been developed. Posted to an internet newsgroup about the breaking news and others responded that they had not heard these new reports. The new suspect story first broke in the major markets and then the secondary markets. Just like a marketing campaign bck then would have. The story finally reached everyone else and man did the tone of many people change.

[justa-hairyape]

So McVeigh wanted his share of a few dozen dark-eyed virgins and a handful of boyservants too?

McViegh was definitly a fruit loop to begin with. Was claiming that the military had planted devices within his body. Apparently his experience during the Gulf War 'changed him'. If you look into the history of the Assasins Cult (hashasins), rumor has it that they would use the following technique. Drug a servant with hashish and then 'magically' transport him to a 'paradise' full of beautiful virgins. This type of programming is very easy to accomplish. All you need is some affordable good looking hookers and obviouly some hashish. Thats how they possibly convinced or programmed their radical islamic soilders to die gloriously in battle during the Crusades. Others studying the Assasins think that these programming orgy stories are false. However, one can imagine that similar brainwashing techniques could have been utilized on McViegh to convince him that the US government was wrong and needed to be punished for its action within Iraq. Possibly the WACO event was meant to be a trigger to awaken this sleeper agent.

[OKCSubmariner]

In your reply #96 is the sketch supposed to resemble Atta or who? Where did the sketch come from? What was the connection to Arizona of the man in the sketch?

Sorry, I missed this, you probably posted this info earlier with more details. Do you mind repeating some of the info again? Thanks.

[Sal]

Cicero, I'm not real comfortable with Hopsicker (the source of your link in #30) because I think he exaggerates, overstates, and then jumps to conclusions. FE he claims that a local leo (not identified) says that the FBI took all the records of the two flight schools involved in training terrorists PLUS files of the local police. I have no trouble believing that and no trouble believing that they'll hide or destroy everything they took. However, Hopsicker goes on to say:

"They loaded two Ryder trucks right outside that (police station) window, then drove them right onto a C130 military cargo plane at Sarasota airport which flew out with Jeb Bush aboard."

TWO Ryder trucks of records. Jeb Bush himself coming along on the pick up. Uh huh. You gotta be careful of this guy because he can discredit you and the point you're trying to make. Even I find the two rental trucks of files (that's a LOTTA files) and the presence of Jeb B. rather outlandish. Somebody who doesn't have any background on FBI cover-ups will not only tune out anything else you have to say, they'll never take you--or the subject--seriously again. Tell the truth, mix it with XXXX and make sheeple laugh at the truth.

OTOH facts are facts and alleged facts can be verified--such as names. Like Dekker/Dekkers. From your link:

...Rudi Dekkers bought Huffman Aviation, Venice, Florida... Cut to Venice, Florida. Middle of the night. The FBI swarms. Local police do the grunt work. Under bright klieg lights they carry away boxes upon boxes of records from Rudi Dekkers flight school.

Remember Rudi?

"I don't need anything from you, just a check to start flying," said Dekkers, who likened flying lessons to shopping for groceries. "We're just a business."

The next day, the FBI is back again at the Venice Airport, this time down the block at Arne Kruithof’s flight school.

"It's really just coincidence that terrorists chose such a place (as Venice) to be their training ground for the unspeakable," says Venice City Manager George Hunt. Determining whether that statement is true is complicated by the fact that the FBI has confiscated everything in sight looking remotely like evidence. And the FBI isn’t talking.

"The FBI took all our files, everything," said one local law enforcement official, after shaking his head ruefully when we asked if Rudi had any local ‘priors.’ He shrugs. He can’t tell. His files are now All Gone.
...
One way to get some answers, we figured, might be to go to Venice, tucked on the Florida Coast between Tampa and Fort Myers, where the terrorists began their U.S. training, and walk in their footsteps. The terrorist cadre came here to train at two flight schools, each purchased independently by two separate Dutch nationals in 1998.

Some found that a little odd. "One damn Dutch boy too many," muttered one longtime national investigator. Perhaps they were just seeing things. Dutch people are free to buy businesses in the U.S., aren’t they? Even if the companies being bought up are located next door to one another, and both of the supposedly competing Dutch Boys are business partners of a third man, Pascal Schrier? Even if the businesses are shortly thereafter used to train the Bin Laden Air Force... what of it? "We're just a business."

The only explanation offered as to why the terrorists picked Venice has been a vague assertion that flight training in Florida is cheaper than in Europe. Cheaper than Europe, maybe. But is it cheaper than in the Sudan? And even if true it does nothing to answer questions about why, with more than 200 flight schools to choose from in Florida alone, Atta’s deadly pilot cadre from Hamburg began their deadly invasion of the U.S. flight training at adjacent flight schools owned by Dutch nationals in a podunk town in the middle of nowhere. Even the weak "cheaper by the terrorist squadron" explanation breaks down upon closer examination...

Typical training fees for a private pilot’s license are in the $10,000 range. Yet Atta and his sidekick together paid almost $40,000 to Dekker’s Huffman Aviation. Was Dekkers charging double the going rate? The Rudi Dekkers Surcharge. Atta didn’t care. Atta was flush. Atta flashed a Big Roll. ....

OK here's a loose connection of my own. (The difference is I'm not presenting it as known fact, just as something to keep in mind in further developments.) Remember the Islamic Calendar thread with the picture for September showing a plane flaming into NYC? The calendar was distributed in an Islamic school in Almere, Netherlands per the Netherlands de Telegraaf (via NewsMax):

The head of the Islamic school -- Mrs Dekker -- alleged had a large number of calenders in her possession from end May to the start of June, well-informed sources informed De Telegraaf. When confronted with the calender images, she responded in a shocked, startled manner and said "how did you get this" and then shrouded herself in silence when further questioned by journalists.

Dekker isn't the same as Dekkers but it's damn close and it's possible the translator dropped an 's' much as he/she dropped the 'ly' from allegedly. Probably just one more remarkable coincidence, but it sure raises questions about a Dutch/American/ME connection. IMO.

There's a lot more in Cicero's link about Jackson Stephens and about Atta's going on to study flying with our military, but it's mostly supported by comments by a 'local observer' etc. No doubt much truth, but you have to pick it carefully.