Patali: Pilot of AA flight dumped fuel prior to crash, in (likely) response to mechanical failures

Gov. Pataki | 11/12/01 | WABC Radio

[Steven W.]

Gov. Pataki is reporting that the pilot of the ill-fated American Airlines flight dumped most of the airplane's fuel over Jamaica Bay, anticipating a crash landing and most likely indicating a trained response to onboard mechanical failures.

[Clinton's a rapist]

Crew member complained of problems with EgyptAir jet's thrusters

Searchers locate 'black boxes' from crashed jetliner

November 2, 1999
Web posted at: 8:55 p.m. EST (0155 GMT)

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In this story:

Two airworthiness directives proposed

Crash planes built consecutively

Crash debris, remains unloaded at Quonset Point

RELATED STORIES, SITES

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From Correspondent Carl Rochelle

NEWPORT, Rhode Island (CNN) -- A crew member aboard EgyptAir Flight 990 reported the plane experienced thrust reverser problems coming into Los Angeles before it headed to New York, government sources told CNN on Tuesday.

Investigators are looking into that aspect as one of the possible causes of Sunday's crash that killed all 217 people aboard, the sources said.

The jetliner plummeted into the Atlantic south of Nantucket after taking off from John F. Kennedy Airport en route to Cairo. A massive search and recovery mission is ongoing.

  Hotlines

EgyptAir information lines:

In the U.S.:
(800) 243-1094

Outside the U.S.:
(202) 245-2244
(202) 244-1460
(202) 418-3690

FBI Information line:
1-800-473-4761

 VIDEO

Correspondent Miles O'Brien takes us on a training run aboard a 767 flight simulator
Windows Media
One passenger on EgyptAir 990 was a vivacious, beloved 82-year-old woman. CNN's Greg LaMotte reports. (November 2)
Real
Windows Media
CNN's Rick Lockridge reports on the technology used in a deep water recovery mission
Real
Windows Media
CNN's Carl Rochelle reports on the problem with a thrust reverser on the EgyptAir Boeing 767
Real
Windows Media

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	ALSO
Passengers and crew on EgyptAir Flight 990 Intact bodies from EgyptAir crash unlikely, shocked relatives told High-tech sleuths to work deep in ocean

	MESSAGE BOARD
Message Board: Plane crashes

CNN learned Tuesday that the Federal Aviation Administration became concerned earlier this year about potential thrust reverser problems on Boeing 767s after discovering serious problems that could lead to pilots losing control of the aircraft in flight.

Two airworthiness directives proposed

The FAA was prepared to issue two airworthiness directives warning of the need to replace or repair defective parts associated with the thrust reverser mechanism.

One defect could, if not corrected, "result in deployment of the thrust reverser in flight and consequent reduced controllability of the aircraft," an FAA document states.

The other proposed directive urges eventual replacement of the "auxiliary track assembly" of the thrust reverser. It said long-term wear and damage could lead to a "separation of a portion of the thrust reverser from the airplane during flight."

This would result in "possible rapid decompression of the airplane, reduced controllability, or reduced structural integrity of the fuselage," the document states.

The EgyptAir jetliner that crashed Sunday falls under the category of jet mentioned in both proposed directives.

Reverse thrusters were blamed for the 1991 crash of a Lauda Air 767 that crashed in Thailand in 1991, killing 127. The FAA issued a directive requiring retrofitting of equipment that would take care of the specific problem deemed to have caused that accident.

Crash planes built consecutively

The planes involved in both crashes were built consecutively by Boeing workers who complained of fatigue and overwork shortly before going on strike in 1989.

Meanwhile, search and recovery vessels combing the crash area on Tuesday pinpointed the location of the so-called "black boxes" that could hold vital clues to the cause of the crash.

But bad weather and difficult diving conditions will delay attempts to bring the boxes to the surface for examination, a U.S. Navy spokesman said.

Capt. James Graham said "pings" -- or electronic signals -- thought to be from both the plane's flight-data recorder and its cockpit voice recorder were detected Tuesday.

"One of the two separate pingers that the Navy Mohawk has located appears to be in the center," of the debris field, Graham said.

But he said search vessels had been recalled to port because of worsening weather conditions.

Coast Guard Capt. Russ Webster said Tuesday afternoon that search and recovery teams would continue with any aspects of the recovery operation not ruled out by the weather.

"On-scene weather conditions are generally worsening. Seas are approximately 8 to 10 feet and building. I'd like to ensure the family members that we are doing everything possible to recover their loved ones and their belongings," he said.

Crash debris, remains unloaded at Quonset Point

The search is concentrated 60 miles south of Nantucket Island, Massachusetts, in water some 270 feet deep.

Information on the recorders could reveal why the plane plunged 33,000 feet without warning into the sea not long after leaving Kennedy International Airport in New York.

The National Transportation Safety Board has established a command post in Newport, Rhode Island, for an investigation expected to take months and cover many areas -- from potential human error and mechanical failure to the possibility of sabotage.

[apackof2]

Intellectually, I'm leaning towards mechanical failure,
but my heart tells me it COULD have been a bomb.

My thoughts also BUT what about person(s) sabotaging the plane while its is still on the ground?
During maintenance, refueling, luggage/food being loaded?

[willyone]

Damn! You are on to us. We fooled you with 800 but now you have found us out. Call rivero for the latest on how a CEC test was also involved. Seriously though if this plane was airborne for six minutes then some action was taken to get ready for a crash. If they took off to the south then it should only have taken thirty seconds to reach where they crashed after liftoff. Once in the late fifties/early sixties a 707 dove in from a thousand feet right after takeoff at Kennedy. Of course it was still Idlewild back then. I don't think that one was ever solved.

[marshmallow]

How the hell does Pataki know this?

Hell, I'm sitting at my keyboard 3,000 miles away looking out the window at a pine tree and I know this was due to terrorist activity. Hey, I don't even know the difference between a 767 and an Airbus and I know that this is suspicious.

Just because he's in New York in contact with the disaster scene and I'm sitting in a cubicle on the other side of the country, doesn't mean I don't know squat.

Follow me here, folks.

This took place in New York. Let me repeat that again, because it's key; New York. Now what significant incident took place in New York recently? That's right, the WTC attack on 9/11. OK folks, now are we getting warm or what? We don't need no politico/journalist expert at the scene, right? We can figure this one ourselves. OK, so where were we? Oh yeah, New York. Do you see the common thread running throught these incidents? It's New York. OK, now there was an explosion on this plane. Do you know what causes explosions? That's right, bombs do.

I rest my case. If that doesn't convince even the most hardened skeptic that skullduggery was involved in this incident, then nothing will.

[sam_paine]

Ok. So the A300 can't dump fuel. Never mind!

[EggsAckley]

I wonder if Arab mechanics are responsible.

I'm thinking the same thing. After following this event all morning, and following this thread,
these are the observations I have made.

1. The wing was broken off and fuel in the wing dumped into the water.

2. To call it "mechanical failure" merits a great big DUH!
OBVIOUSLY THE MECHANICS ON THAT PLANE FAILED, the question is "why."

3. There was not enough time in the four minutes that the plane was airborne for the pilot to detect
mechanical failure AND dump fuel.

4. I don't believe a terrorist was on the plane, or if there was one, I don't believe he went to the cockpit.
NTSB stated that the checked baggage had been "passenger matched," which they naively believed, in the past, that NO ONE would put a bomb in their luggage and THEN board the plane,
knowing they would die. NOW we know that they would.

5. Just because the 9/11 terrorists used the planes as missiles does not mean they would
use the same MO on another "hit." More likely they would change their MO for every event,
just to keep us guessing.

6. There is no doubt that many in the ground crew/mechanics/baggage handlers/plane cleaners
etc. are likely to be middle eastern, and have excellent opportunities to
sabotage any plane they like.

7. The LAST thing that American AND Pataki would want us to know is that
the ground crews are so poorly screened. They have been doing their
big dog and pony show for the last 2 months, trying to convince us that we are safe,
at this point, they don't want us to undo their newly created safety myths by having us suspect the ground crew.

[nvagvup]

I think that I can be defiant on the ground. No, I don't think you can be defiant by giving the terrorists what they want. They want to disrupt our economy, our commerce, and our freedoms by use of fear. If they can make us afraid to do the things we've always done, in the way we've always done them, then they win. Why would we want to give in to them on this? Hiding under the bed is exactly what they want us to do! I'm flying tommorrow, and I my only precaution is that I'll be watching like an eagle any Arab males that might be on my flight. The seat cushion comes out easily and can be used as a shield, and the seatbelt itself is easily disconnected, to then be wrapped around your hand as a weapon. Of course, I'd rather have my .44 Mag., but I probably couldn't get through security with it.

[aristeides]

If the pilot had time to dump fuel, wouldn't he also have been able to avoid hitting such a narrow peninsula?

[Travis McGee]

Please explain to me why an intelligent America-hating Arab moslem naturalized American citizen could not be induced to purchase a Barrett 50 caliber sniper rifle?

He might even be told that the rifle is being taken to Afghanistan.

I am one of the most ardent RKBA supporters on FR, bu you need to point out the flaw in this hypothesis: why it could not happen.

[BlueHorseShoe]

"...At least we can laugh....through our tears..."

Yes, we must, as difficult as it sometimes seems. We have an obligation to those who have been lost to us to live happily. I think all of us would insist on that had it been us.

[Greenpointer]

Follow me here, folks. This took place in New York. Let me repeat that again, because it's key; New York. Now what significant incident took place in New York recently? That's right, the WTC attack on 9/11. OK folks, now are we getting warm or what? We don't need no politico/journalist expert at the scene, right? We can figure this one ourselves. OK, so where were we? Oh yeah, New York. Do you see the common thread running throught these incidents? It's New York. OK, now there was an explosion on this plane. Do you know what causes explosions? That's right, bombs do. I rest my case. If that doesn't convince even the most hardened skeptic that skullduggery was involved in this incident, then nothing will.

Ok, thanks Columbo. And I love your writing style. You seem like a really likable person.

[TheRealLobo]

You said:"A jet engine at the starting end of the runway coming directly toward the shooter would have virtually no relative motion, it would just appear to grow in size.

Easy shot."

Maybe an easy shot. HOWEVER, your shot would have to be REALLY lucky to just damage the engine enough so that four minutes later, catastrophic engine failure occurs. If you shoot it while it's coming towards you on takeoff and catastrophic engine failure occurs while the plane is moving towards you, you are likely to find yourself in (part of) the debris field. Could someone be THAT lucky? Sure, I guess so, but I can't work through the amount of problems that this scenario would present.

There are far easier ways to bring down an aircraft than trying to do it with a .50 caliber rifle.

[GoreFreeTN]

Entirely due to the Al Gore inspired low-flow toilets.

You are exactly right. Al changed toilets from 5 gallons to 3 gallons. I'm always telling my wife that when the toilet overflows.

[concerned about politics]

Thanks for the eye witness post.
Sounds like a hit to me.
Lets see if the gov. spills it, or just makes us "feel better" with a nice little engine malfunction story.

[Diddle E. Squat]

I gotta tell ya, MSNBC has been beating FOX News on the coverage today. More info, data, images, angles of coverage. Fox keeps running the same damn video loops over and over and over and over and over.

[DugwayDuke]

Evidently the interview with Ken is correct. MSNBC is running video of a police boat hoisting a large tail segment out of Jamaca Bay. Hard to estimate size but the boat is the size of a small tug, 30 feet of tail wouldn't be a bad estimate of the size of the tail. MSNBC anchor guy is saying the video is near the end of the runway indicating the tail separated prior to the engines or wings.

[Labyrinthos]

I doubt he would have that much food left over from breakfast. I'm sure he would've ate it all in that sitting.

The leftover pizza was Tipper's. She hid the slices in the back of the fridge behind the cheese cake and a box of Funnybones and underneath a pan of marinating pork chops, but when Al read in the N.Y.Times this morning that he actually lost the election, he went on a wild binge,raided the fridge, and ate Tipper's pizza. I can only imaging the look on her face when she went to heat up the pizza for a mid-morning snack only to find an empty box and Al with dried cheese hangin from his beard.

[antivenom]

NNAAAAWWWWW...she is gettting ready to explain all the dead fish washing up on shore and the stench they will cause...(but Hillary already knows "we know" that while she was swimming off the coast of NY...in "OLD CRUSTY" she gave those poor fish that fishy smell)....eeeeewwwwwww....holding nose!

[Travis McGee]

There are far easier ways to bring down an aircraft than trying to do it with a .50 caliber rifle.

Name one. even building a bomb with a barometric initiator would be tougher than getting a Barrett and making a head on shot when the jet is at liftoff.

[willyone]

Let's see now. An engine tears apart on takeoff severing fuel lines and probably the fuel tank. The pumps which are electric continue to pump. Yes there will be fuel in the bay. If this plane took off to the South over Jamaica Bay it should have been over Rockaway in a minute or less. So why the long airborne time? Unless it took off in another direction and then turned. I guess more will be known soon.