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9/11 and the Tin-Foil Hat Crowd
vanity | 10/24/01 | me

Posted on 10/24/2001 9:44:01 AM PDT by bassmaner

After the horrifying sneak attack of 9/11 and the continuing anthrax scares, I am certain that our government is doing the right thing in going after OBL and his Taliban henchmen. Their words and their deeds are just crying for us to wipe them off the face of the earth, consign them to history's dustbin, or whatever similar fate we can conjure up. I am 99.9999% certain that GWB is handling the job well and doing the right thing for our nation. I hope he continues and carries the message to all the state sponsors of terrorism as well. But there are some things that are troubling me.

Before anyone starts flaming, this is not going to be a "blame America" screed. Au contraire. Through our tradition of liberty, we've always helped raise the level of civilization in places where we've injected our influence. The doubts that I have about the current war policy stem from this question: Considering the abuses and the lies heaped on American citizens in recent years by their federal government (IRS abuses, Waco, etc.), and the federal power grabs that were attempted long before 9/11 (Know Your Customer, Carnivore, and others), can we really, truly believe BEYOND A SHADOW OF A DOUBT that the tin-foil hat crowd is totally off base with their wacko conspiracy theories?

I've heard such types talk about the "Masonic brotherhood" which seeks to gain world domination by imposing the "new world order". I've read theories about how the CFR, Trilateral Commission, and the Bilderbergers are behind a vast scheme to impose the one-world socialist vision of the Illuminati at the expense of traditional American freedoms (What better way to eliminate liberty than to use the exigency of war?). In the past I've always taken such nonsense with a grain of salt. And my current reaction is "Why would any such conspiracy risk killing thousands of innocent people just to advance its agenda? Couldn't it be done in a more subtle way?"

But still, I'm troubled. How, for instance, were we able to pin the 9/11 attacks on bin Laden so quickly while claiming that his al-Qaeda organization is based on compartmentalized "cells" without a direct chain-of-command? Why is the evidence we have on him and al-Qaeda under seal? Why does the title of the new cabinet level organization (Office of Homeland Security) seem troubling? Am I wrong to be asking these questions? Could the tin-foil hat wackos be on to something? Is everything we're hearing from the media and the government true? Don't get me wrong: I support the government's actions in its fullfillment of its Constitutional duty to "provide for the common defense". I just hope I'm not being lied to - I don't want this to be a country that's has given up its birthright of liberty to advance some evil, conspiratorial agenda. That's not the America I want to live in.


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To: malador
Just what the hell is your problem? No, don't bother, I'm more interested in Silly's hot dogs.
121 posted on 10/25/2001 2:27:10 PM PDT by katze
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To: martian_22
#89 Have you noticed HAL9000's post re OIC Smalz's final report? You may find some interest there, but again, what can you do about it? I want the Clintons jailed lots more than you do, but it won't happen.
122 posted on 10/25/2001 3:11:37 PM PDT by katze
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To: WhiteGuy
And the Carlyle Group is Casper Weinberger, James Baker, etc., ... and they used to own the defense contractor that did the logistics for Iran-Contra business.
123 posted on 10/25/2001 3:17:41 PM PDT by That Poppins Woman
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To: katze
Yeah, I remember Espy and Tyson's debacle. If I get time I'll read the OIC final that just came out. Like you say, what you gonna do?

Jail? JAIL? You're going soft in your old age.....hanging or stoning would be appropriate....but only if found guilty....

124 posted on 10/25/2001 4:37:23 PM PDT by martian_22
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Comment #125 Removed by Moderator

To: martian_22
Jail? JAIL? You're going soft in your old age.....hanging or stoning would be appropriate....but only if found guilty....

124 posted on 10/25/01 4:37 PM Pacific by martian_22

No, no, age will never mellow me where the Clintons are concerned. My idea of punishment for these two lowlifes would be being in a small cell together for the rest of their unnatural lives.

What do you mean "if found guilty"? IMO, that's a given, and they're probably guilty of much more than we'll ever know about.

126 posted on 10/25/2001 6:35:33 PM PDT by katze
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To: malador
#125 If you're calling me a jackass, I must tell you, I've been called worse.

If you think I'm going against my president in this very serious problem we currently have, you're just not with it. And, this is my last post to you, since you obviously knew where I stand, from the get-go.

127 posted on 10/25/2001 6:38:24 PM PDT by katze
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Comment #128 Removed by Moderator

To: Dr. Eckleburg
My daughter is an adult and NEVER went to public schools of any kind.
129 posted on 10/25/2001 8:27:05 PM PDT by nopardons
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To: martian_22
I've never been to DU, am not obsessed by them, and suggested that you'd be happier there, due to what you post. : - )
130 posted on 10/25/2001 8:31:01 PM PDT by nopardons
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To: bassmaner
The reason for the secret proof of OBL's guilt, I would think, would be that some of it is based on intelligence from our agencies and more importantly from other nations. In order to protect the sources, the government is not going to show the proof because it would reveal the way we and others gather intelligence and threaten lives and national security.
This seems perfectly logical to me. I personally do not require proof as I have been aware for years that OBL hates us and is a terrorist. I would guess there are more involved, and I think the government has more or less said that.
They pretty much know who these Islamic terrorists are, so I leave that up to them. Not for me to know, except the ones that are among us, those I would like identified and thrown out of here on their ears, yesterday!
131 posted on 10/25/2001 8:34:55 PM PDT by ladyinred
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Comment #133 Removed by Moderator

To: hogwaller
Latest addition: the Office of Cyberspace Security, starting with $10 million.

See Washington Times front page story "Secure new Web urged for government only", by August Gribbin.

134 posted on 10/26/2001 5:25:20 AM PDT by That Poppins Woman
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To: hogwaller
Why does the Bush administration use Richard Clarke, former NSC member under Clinton, and Clinton's ex-"terrorism czar", now head of "Cyber security", if Clinton's policies were so abhorrent?

Circus for the masses. That's what Clinton was. A large number of his policies were mere continuations of Poppy Bush's.

Human societies have always been ruled by those who best exploit "scapegoating". Get the masses playing "smear the queer" and (1) you unite the masses, and (2) you can get away with ANYTHING. Osama is doing it. We're doing it. Create a really good boogie man, and the masses will entertain themselves for years bashing that pinata.

Meanwhile, legal precedents are being set that are going to rip the BoR in 2. Anyone who really thinks that things are going to roll back and be the same (i.e., the federales give up their snooping/secret search powers) is a fool trying to win at 3-card monte on the street.

Things are already changing in the gov't contracting field -- contractors' project managers of gov't contracts are starting to go through secret or top secret clearance processes, whether they deal with classified materials or not.

Its a whole new world. And too many of the naive fools here have no idea how much things are changing and will continue to change.

They'll probably never find Osama, and they'll probably never ever ever end the quest to root out all the terrorists' networks. He's the greatest thing to come along EVER for the federal government to usurp ALL individual and state powers. The beast is hungry. The beast is always hungry.

136 posted on 10/26/2001 7:55:27 AM PDT by That Poppins Woman
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To: bassmaner
the best rememberance of 9/11/01 I have ever seen.

Don't try the link unless you have a high-speed connection and about 10 minutes to spare.

138 posted on 10/29/2001 5:17:29 AM PST by ImaGraftedBranch
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To: bassmaner; babylonian; spoosman; WIMom; Thinkin' Gal; Pete; ctdonath2; Dr. Eckleburg
A million monkeys sitting at typewriters came up with this:( They even told me how to spell monkeys.)

In Numerology, the number 11 is associated with a higher spiritual plane. Many people involved in spiritual search feel that this terrible tragedy is challenging us all to reach toward a higher level."

Now lets look at the time of the impact: It was first reported that the FIRST PLANE IMPACTED AT 8:46. 8+4+6 = 18 or 3x6 or 666. It was later changed to 8:45 which equals 17. From God's point of view, 6 is of course MAN'S NUMBER. The apex of MAN'S SYSTEM OF MAMMON is the MARK OF BEAST, KNOWN AS 666. IT IS A FINANCIAL NUMBER, and the twin towers of the World Trade Center were the heart of the underwriting of the world's system of mammon. The number 8 is Christ's number, the number of NEW BEGINNINGS, 4 is the number of the WORLD, and 5 is the number of REDEMPTION. So using the mathematics of both God and occult, we get a true meaning of what happened on 9-11-2001.

The second aircraft hit at 9:03. that adds up to 12 - the number of God's perfection. 9 is God's number of Judgment, and 3 is God's number, ie the TRINITY, etc. What becomes very interesting is that from 8:45 to 9:03 is 18 minutes - or again 3x6 or 666. Is all of this, ALL OF THIS COINCIDENCE? Not in a million years - it is the work of fantastic intelligence on both sides of the isle, both God and Satan working their respective programs for the STRONG DELUSION.

Flight 175 which is 1+7+5 = 13 the number of rebellion, and had 56 passengers on board which means 5+6 = 11. If you add the crew of nine you have 65 total which is 6+5 = 11.

President Bush addressed the nation at exactly 8:30PM or 8+3 = 11.

There were 110 stories in each of the towers = 11 SHOWS UP, because 110 is 11x10, and 2 if simply added together. 2 is the number of division and separation.

There were 47 stories in the Number 7 building or 4+7 = 11.

Added together, there were 220 stories in the twin towers or 11 x 20, which is twice 11 or four, the WORLD'S NUMBER. Twenty two in Scripture means double chaos, double disintegration.

THE FLIGHT NUMBERS

11, 77, 175 and 93.

The two aircraft that hit the World Trade Center are Flight #11 and #175. The number eleven is disorder, chaos and disintegration. 1+1=2 the number of SEPARATION or DIVISION in God's numeric. The other flight was 175 which is 1+7+5 = 13 or the number of rebellion.

Thus the two aircraft that hit the world trade center SIGNIFY DISINTEGRATION OF THE REBELLION AGAINST GOD - the time of the FINAL RISE OF THE ANTICHRIST FORCES, when the VILE ONES COME INTO THEIR FULLNESS FOR THEIR DESTRUCTION. It is this final rise to power that IS THEIR DOOM, THEIR DISINTEGRATION. It is their DEATH CRY, the time they rise up in full strength to DEFEAT GOD. They cannot do it. They perish. America, of course, was founded in total REBELLION. The number 13 is all over our Great Seal.

W allowed the flag to fly at half mast for 11 days.

Enough said. Don't monkey around with this event.

Move along.

139 posted on 10/29/2001 6:12:34 AM PST by It'salmosttolate
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To: It'salmosttolate
I think the most interesting statement you make is that America was founded in total rebellion. I'll have to think about that one. Rebellion against what? The oppression of aristocratic tyranny, of govts tied to religious institutions? Against corruption, and a bad idea?

When the people who had the guts to stand up to that they produced the greatest good the world has ever ween, save Jesus' sacrifice on the cross, His death and resurrection (sp?).

The problem the USA hasa had particularly for the last 88 years, ut more acutely the last 10, is we have seen a radical encroachment of the same type of aristocracy that the founders fought to get away from. These are the high priests of the NWO. If the Lord will have mercy on us, He will help us once again to free ourselves from them.

I'd like to think that the WTC coming down means that the Lord is bringing an end of the reign of the global aristocracy over the United States, but sadly, few even know who the enemy is. It is not that there is anything wrong with commerce, productivity, and the creation of capital. All these things are great. But the problem is we have a situation where a few have seized the power of that entire process and they dominate everything, to the extreme that they have to control everything, and the way to control everything is to bring the whole world to heel by their various nefarious schemes.

They have corrupted the good thing with their evil distortion of an honest money supply, honest commerce, and honest trade. In the new reign of the global aristocracy, the religious cult is multi-national corporations, the priests being the owners of these large corporations, and they use the govt to get what they want.

The 'vatican' of this cult is in Basel Switzerland (main location for the FRS). These people have no allegiance to any country, or the Lord. In fact, some have suggested those at the heart of the beast directly worship Lucifer, whi has been renamed Satan.

It is interesting what you say, in that this incident has the twin agendas of the Lord and the devil colliding with each other. I think that is a poigniant observation. We are getting pretty deep in time on planet earth, and the devil has limited patience. Something like this was bound to happen, and now we have this battle going on as to who will win this age old battle over who rules the earth -- Jesus or the devil.

The Bible says the exact same thing. What we read, though, is first the devil takes the 'lead' in the game, but late in the 4th quarter, Jesus, who has perfect timing, wisdom and infinite patience, shows up and permanently secures the victory.

People would be wise now to voluntarily bend their knee to Jesus, before an angel at the judgement presses down on their shoulder to make them do so. Still, we cannot know for sure when the end shall come. My focus is to shine a light on the evil people that rig the game, and if enough people are paying attention, maybe that can spark a new rebellion against the latest aristocratic outrage. Then it was the Church of England and the English govt, and King George wreaking havoc, as well as the RCC empire and their connection to the govts of France and Spain (et al).

The diabolical combination of these two forces caused nothing but heartache, bloodshed and misery on the Eurpean continent, and the founders of this country thought well to take the risk to separate from that scene and try for something better. They not only won that battle, but they were right, America shone brightly as the European continent faded.

But those snobbish Eurpean aristocrats did not go away. They came back to recapture America through a fiat money scam we know as the FRS. From this has spawned all sorts of evil, all of which has distinct ties to 8/11/01. It just takes too dang long to explain.

The point is the real struggle America faces is the battle against the new aristocracy. At least the cults of religion in the 18 century had a Christian label. Today the label is just the thirst for raw power and greed, with Satanic roots.

Unfortunately, the govt is only hacking away at the symptom and not the cause. Of course, one can only wonder what the real relationship the current administration has to the global aristocracy -- are they co-conspirators, or are they being unwittingly caught up in the web of deceit, being flung out into Afghanistan, mising the point entirely?

The big difference between now and 1776 is the people who were the leaders in the country, which were by and large the men who had land and wealth (nothing wrong with that) they were leading the way against the aristocratic rule of European powers. Some would rightly argue that the divorce was never really complete after the treaty of Paris in 1783, and I would essentially agree with that.

However, it was a huge step in the right direction. Unfortunately the European powers kept their tentacles in the USA, and in 1913 they scored a major coup de tat, with the able assistance of Ameircan politicians.

Today is a totally different matter. Think of the richest people in our country. You know who they are. Go down the Fortune 500 list. They would have been the equivalent of the Fortune 50 in 1776. In 1776 almost everybody on the list was on board to disconnect from the aristocracy. They were the ones who risked their lives, their fortunes, and their sacred honor to do what they believed in their heart was the right thing. In fact, many of them did sacrifice it all.

Today, not single man on the fortune 500 is signed up to battle against the corrupt beast of the modern aristocracy. That is a big difference. Why? because the rich among us, and our govt leaders feed off of the beast. So if we set aside the kooky tin foil people like myself who might see the truth, in practical terms, my agenda is dead in the water because the people that need to be on board simply are not.

If there is then to be no modern battle against the new aristocracy, the modern religious cult, and the way they dictate to the govts of the world what to do, just like they did in the 18th century, the very type of thing George Washington and John Adams fought against, then we might be close to the end indeed. I mean, the bottom line is, the rich have totally sold out to this aristocracy. Just wait until the aristocracy they sold out to turns on them, and takes it all away. It is not a good idea to put one's full faith and confidence in people who serve Satan. Clearly, it is a Faustian bargain. It looks good for a while, but in the end, the deal falls through, and the end is a bad one indeed.

So, here we are, the little people talking about this stuff. We just stand on the sidelines watching the titans of the world cannibalize each other, and the odds are, we'll get stuck in the crossfire.

In the end, even though we can do better, as the founders proved, by doing something, still, if the moment has passed for the good thing to be done, than we have to revisit the bottom line fact that the Lord Jesus is Lord over all, and everything is subject to Him, and if the game is over on planet earth, as your post suggets that it very well might be, he is going to allow all these things to come to pass, to bring this long chapter of history to a close, giving way to a new age, a new heavens and a new earth.

The historic chapter I refer to is the one that starts in Genesis 1:1 and ends in Rev 22. You'd never actually think it could happen like that, but what seemed unbelievable to me 20 years ago sems highly plausible today. I feel sorry for people that pin all of their hopes on this earthly paradigm. They think this is all there is. The Bible says:

"Eye has not seen, nor ear heard the things that God has prepared for them that love Him"

If the Lord wants to move us on to something better, I wont fight it.

140 posted on 10/29/2001 7:31:21 AM PST by spoosman
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