Anthrax / Bioterrorism Discussion Thread

Still, if this is BioWar (and it sure looks everything like that, as inept in the end as it may turn out to be) then a barrier has been breached that allows the U.S., at the discretion of our national command authority, to respond with weapons of mass destruction.

Yes indeed.

The last national anthrax scare I recall is the following:

Anthrax hoaxes continue in Milwaukee, Racine Latest recipients are a Planned Parenthood office and anti-abortion agency

By Meg Jones of the Journal Sentinel staff

Last Updated: Jan. 12, 2000

Two more anthrax threats were sent to offices in Milwaukee and Racine on Wednesday as such hoaxes continued to sweep across the country, authorities said.

The circumstances were similar to incidents earlier this week at three other Milwaukee sites, as well as at a middle school and children's services agency in Kenosha.

In each instance, letters contained a powder with a note threatening that the substance was anthrax were opened, police were called, and anyone who came in contact with the powder was decontaminated and checked at local hospitals.

Also Wednesday, authorities announced that an anthrax hoax letter was sent to Community Adoption Agency in Manitowoc on Monday. The letter, postmarked Milwaukee, said "This is anthrax - you will die." The letter was sent to the organization's former address in Waukesha and forwarded, said Manitowoc Police Capt. Tom Bergner. Since the threats are sent via the mail, the FBI is investigating. Although tests have shown none of the powdery substances were actually anthrax, anyone caught sending the letters faces life in prison, said FBI special agent Brian Manganello.

"They're called hoaxes, but it's not a humorous matter and the penalties are severe," said Manganello, based in Milwaukee.

An envelope containing a substance claimed to be anthrax was found at Planned Parenthood in downtown Milwaukee Wednesday. Two similar anthrax threats, which turned out to hoaxes, were opened at the same clinic on Monday.

In Racine, a volunteer at Affiliated Pregnancy Counseling Service opened an envelope containing a powdery substance and a threat, and contacted police. The incident would have been contained to one office and only two people, but a worker at a dental office in the building walked into Affiliated Pregnancy Counseling Service after the envelope had been opened. The dental office employee then returned to the dental office, potentially contaminating the other five people in that office, said Racine Police Sgt. Jerry Baldukas.

Dan Krueger, a member of the board of Affiliated Pregnancy Counseling Service, described it as an all-volunteer, non-profit Christian agency that opposes abortion.

"Unfortunately, these things seem to happen in rashes," said FBI special agent Barry Babler.

Classes resumed Wednesday at Bullen Middle School in Kenosha following an anthrax threat Tuesday that forced the evacuation of 800 students. A letter had also been sent to Children's Service Society of Wisconsin in Kenosha.

Aurora Health Care offices on Milwaukee's south side reopened at 1 p.m. Wednesday after an anthrax threat was opened there on Tuesday, said Jeff Squire, director of communications.

Manganello said a similar spate of anthrax hoaxes were mailed last February to organizations and businesses across the country. None turned out to be anthrax, an infectious disease caused by bacteria that is lethal if the bacteria are inhaled.

"It's running the gamut just like last year, abortion clinics, schools, hospitals, health care providers, pro-life agencies. It doesn't seem to be a sensible pattern," said Manganello.

Anyone with information about the anthrax hoaxes should contact their local law enforcement agency or the Milwaukee FBI at (414) 276-4684.

Journal Sentinel reporters Jennie Tunkieicz, reporting from Racine, and James H. Burnett III, reporting from Milwaukee, contributed to this report.

Appeared in the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel on Jan. 13, 2000.

That's right, it isn't a fair fight, the other side gets its clock cleaned, permanently.Those idiots didn't that far ahead.

Still, if this is BioWar (and it sure looks everything like that, as inept in the end as it may turn out to be) then a barrier has been breached that allows the U.S., at the discretion of our national command authority, to respond with weapons of mass destruction.

These attacks are hardly inept. They are clearly not intended to kill lots of people. Most likely, Saddam has tested the delivery mechanism quite thoroughly on political prisoners, and knows exactly what its limitations are. They are meant to send a message. You have to ask yourself the question, why this technique, and why now? It's as if you saw a known arab terrorist buying a plastic box-cutter at a Wal-Mart on 9/10. Why? It only makes sense in the context of the whole plan. What's the plan?

Alternatively, you could just stick your head in the sand and hope it doesn't mean anything at all.

Article Details Link Between Terrorists and AMI attack

Bayer (BAYZY) is the company that makes CIPRO. Stock was up around 10% today.

--for this we will take as a given that the 'facts' are as advertised exactly and officially, ie, it's the al qaeda organization behind the attacks.

First, you have to understand the cell concept of organization. smaller and more numerous cells is the usual route, anonymousa to each other, even in a small area, there might be several, simply because it's more efficient, it's much harder to detect, and even if you crack one cell, and even if you use vigorus and imaginative interrogation techniques, it might be impossible to get a lead to any other cells, because they sinmply wouldn't have the information to give up. Can't spill any beans that way..

This isn't a typical pyramid - shaped organizational structure like our businesses or military or government is set up.. Although there is a nominal "head terrorist' osama bin laden, it's actually more of a very loose network that was only organized to the extent of various training they received, at various camps. Moat likely most of the cells are made up of members of different camps, who only met inside CONUS for the first time, again, this is a security feature. They go to great pains to NOT know other memberts of other cells. If they are even to the point of single person sized cells, then this is "bad". I will assume they have such cells at this point.

Frequently, the over-all efforts will have multiple cells thrown at a similar task, on the chance that if one fails, enough independent c ells will succeed in achieving the target objective. this objective might be detailed, as in the coordinated but still loose wtc/pentagon attacks, or it might be totally random, which is more effective and less likely to be uncovered.

This is what I beleive you are seeing now. these extremely random and loose "anthrax mail" attacks. Incredibly cost effective. realistically, they will be able to shut the mail down if they choose to, if they start picking people at random out of the phone book all over, from expensive upscale uptown, to east cowflop, from single individuals, to the largest businesses. they don';t even need to send anthrax-yet- in any scale. Just 'enough" so there is an infection verified daily, and more and more false alarms. Another poster pointed out the fact of exhaustion of counter measure resources-this is a good observation. There IS a finite quantity of various gear, antibiotics-and nerves really. "They" have the ability to run the actual few trained hazmat teams ultra ragged. And this is only with one single style and type of attack, excedingly easy to pull off. Think about all the public mailboxes in the country, and billions of pieces of mail-it's an unlimited open season there, cheap and effective.

Next step is quite the variable. They can keep this up fora considerable time, especially if they have intact cells (or mercenaries for pay), who are not on any security forces radar right now. Our cops are decent-but not supermen. even serial killers with the same MO, like the unabomber, got away with what they did for years, despite mailed in clues directly from the unabomber.

Osamas published statements indicate that he holds the entire US population directly responsible both for the decades long support of israel over the palestinians, and also for stationing troops in saudi arabia-the "holy land" to their wahabi sect. His claims include the observations that even after years and years of islamic complaints, that they were ignored, bombed, etc, etc. That's his point of view, and where they are coming from. So in his mind, blown up civilian people all over the muslim world, starved kids in iraq, palestinians forced from their "homeland" etc, that these points made the entire US population guilty, because of the long time involved. He knoiws everyone in the US is fuly informed, and have ignored the islamics wishes and complaints, so now it;'s just tough luck, the jihad is on. That's his position, and their position. Assume this is for keeps then, and will go on for a long time.

Back to the possibilities. Realsitically, to be frank, the potential targets and techniques are simply enormous.. Anyone even with a medium imagination and a rudimentary unstanding of low intensity but sustained unconventional warfare can see the US is the premier 'target rich" environment. I would imagine all the classic MO's will be used. We have had the airliner hijackings. Most likely there will be vehicle bombs. Suicide bombs like are used extensively in israel might be used. The biowarfare angle is cheap and effective, and no mass quantities are needed, even a modest 'success" of a dozen confirmed cases in a single spread will be enough to completely enflame the population at this point. We will most likely see a force magnifyer infastructure attack as well, perhaps at a symbol of western culture, something like a bomb or gas or bio or arson attack at a movie theater. The possibilities are vast, to boil it down. Despite what 'they" say, water supplies are vulnerable. Electricity is very vulnerable. natural gas is extremely vulnerable. On and on.

The authorities might at that time of a larger attack or attacks seek to completely censor the news, up to and including something akin to the "official secrets act" like great britain has. In other words, what they say is secret, is secret, you violate a secret, newsperson or not, tough beans, jail, immediately. We could very easily see complete suspension of habeas corpus, for another example. They are already doing it with the couple of hundred they have 'detained" so far.

Someone mentioned 'doomsday", or MAD. Well, maybe not total, but again, to be realistic, with obvious years planning, and access to considerable sums, think it would be safe to say the war on drugs has so corrupted the government, that it's been a simple matter of some thousands of greenbacks in some pocket to look the other way while certain containers make it into the country. This is just common knowledge now, it's not really a big secret. Any potential terrs can bring in anything they want, and whatever else they need, they can buy or steal it domestically here. Anything. They. Want. Everything is for sale in this nation, including people. Including people in gopvernment. Including people in private business, who might have restricted items they 'aren't' supposed to sell without quite a lot of permits and paperwork, but money talks, paperwork can be cooked. Maybe this has happened, even years ago. It most liikely has. Do not assume they DON'T have material x, y or z., or aren't capable of actions x, y or z. No internet 'experts' predicted the wtc and pentagon attacks, something to remember. Do not overestimate, nor underestimate these people's resourcefulness. Israel, in a tiny area, with massive secret police presence, is still suffering daily from terr attacks, after 4 decades of a lot of active attacks. There is no easy solution to this, none. You cannot bomb way over there in wherever-istan, and hope to kill a terr over here in metropolis. This is a different style of war, and very little in CONUS ever, even though in the 70's there was a spate of bombings, none of them have shown the sophistication of the cell concepts domestically as what we obviously have here. Curently ELF publically has shown this sophistication, that is the main reason they are still operating, it's the human equivalent organization like PGP is to net communications. You know it's there, but you can't do a lot with it.. Umm, I'll say it again, I think china has an even bigger presence here in that regard, deeper sleepers, and much more sophisticated. FWIW there.

Also remember what is quite freely available to purchase, and the relative ease of anonymity, false identification, especially of foreigners, and freedom and variety of travel and lodging, etc, in this nation. It's been completely wide open. the government and big business has gone way, extremely far out of their way to make this nation wide open to botth illegal aliens, and also to ignore "legal" ones to a great extent. This is just true facts, and it's been decades in the making, decades.

As to the various anthrax showing up now, what is alarming is that it's different strains-apparently. If it was just a single type, well, I could see it being an amateur or small organizational attempt, but this is not. They are both refining their skills, and building to a bigger attack. I disagree with the analysts who say they have shot their wad. I just don't think so. The trained pilot-oriented cells might partially have shot their wead, that leaves the suicide bombers, the chemists, the biologists, the cyber attackers, the conventional weapons attackers, etc. there's a big variety of skills that can be used in unconventional war. Even someone with no skills can slip adulteraed food or medical products onto the shelves, totally random, like the old tylenol poisoning case. Imagine that-just general 'food' . Too many possibilities. it all depends on how serious these people are-and it looks like they are serious. How organized they are-well, they are international in scale. How connected they are-well, that's a matter of conjecture, but assume they have access to anything money can buy, and thousands of supporters, and that would be a fair assessment.

In short summary, what some have said is *true* go about your life. But, not exactly like before, yoiu must develop automatic "situational awareness'. Be much more aware of your surroundings, that's it. Develop contingency plans for various scenarios. Be aware of the wind direction all the time, something that becomes automatic. Learn to monitor a normal scanner, so you can be aware of any breaking emergency news, and be able to know alternative routres in your locale, especially as it applies to geographical location, choke points, and current wind direction. Learn some of the basic decontamionation techniqes, like really, some bleach water in a sprayer is all not that expensive, clean water for rinsing either, simple surgical masks can be safely carried sealed in a pocket in a baggie. Pay attention to handwashing a lot. Etc, etc, none of which will really interfere with "normal" life, but might give you the edge you need in an emergency. I call it developing a 'survival mindset". Think through scenarios in advance, then if an emergency hits, you can act, not be forced to react, or just be paralysed from "not knowing what to do". No guarantees, but learning new things doesn't hurt any whatsoever, and who knows, you might be in a position to really help out some time, instead of just being another person in need., a victim.

Anthrax I am not worried about. Smallpox is another matter. I have the vaccination from years ago, and I have had boosters inthe service, but that was years ago.

I have another worry that is much more serious than any of these, and I am keeping that to myself.

http://www.cnn.com/2001/HEALTH/conditions/10/13/anthrax/index.html

"The substance in the NBC envelope was tested twice by the FBI and once by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. It tested negative each time, officials said."

I think we ought to consider the possibility that this letter was not the source of this woman's infection. I realize that these sorts of tests are not 100% reliable, but I would expect that the FBI and the CDC would have taken considerable care to do their testing with the most reliable methods available to them, and they have had several days to run their tests.

This leads me to the uncomfortable conclusion that this infection may be of unknown origin, and if we do not know how this woman was exposed we do not know who else may be infected.

Cutaneous anthrax is not a big deal, but anyone who has contracted the inhaled form of this disease is very likely to die once the disease progresses to the point where they begin to show symptoms. Early detection is really the only protection we have.

Am I a candidate for a tinfoil hat or is this something we ought to be concerned with?

MikeJ
I ain't givin' to any charity that calls it a "tragedy". I'm only givin' to charities that call it an "attack".

Feel free to copy, resend, forward to other forums, this:

Nuclear, Biological, & Chemical Warfare- Survival Skills, Pt. II

That smallpox vaccination is good for 20 years. They stopped giving it in the 70's because the disease was thought to be eradicated. Many people today have not had this vaccination and even of those who have it may have been more than 20 years ago.

A lighter look at the anthrax epidemic:

Anthrax Discrimination:The Real Threat

Glad I did a search :-)

Looking down the News & Breaking News column, I noticed how many separate anthrax report threads--many are false alarms and several have been the real deal. We need one thread to consolidate the reports so that there is room for other news (yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Clause and there is other news).

Keep this thread bumped.

I believe our leaders know exactly what the powdery substance is. They just have to act.

Do you think this war should go to the next level? Are there options? Carefully decide the best option.

I read in another countries news last night that the substance was carbonal chloride and chlorine with the virus. I dont know if it is true or not.

I personally could not have say this any better!

A MILITARY MAN'S PERSPECTIVE
Open Letter From a U.S. Marine Corps Harrier Pilot

Dear American's:

When I opened my e-mail this morning, I had about twenty forwards of the article written by Gordon Sinclair, the Canadian who so eloquently praised the United States. What most of you do not realize is that this commentary was written many years ago. Those of us in the Military Service have known about it for a long tome. Now, Americans are flooding the net with it as if it were new. It is not. When it was written most Americans didn't read it, because most Americans did not care. The tragedy that befell all of us on September 11th shocked America. America no longer feels safe. Many of you have said, "The government should have known! 30 Billion Dollars is spent on intelligence! What about the Military?" Just a reminder America, you voted our government into office. For years you allowed some dishonest politicians and twisted television media personalities to shape your ideas about the defense of your nation. Why? Because most Americans were too lazy to look beyond the three minute sound-bytes on the evening news. Here's a news flash not being broadcast much," "On September 11, America had the exact level of protection, both militarily and intelligence, that it was willing to pay for."

Only yesterday, Congress and the Senate approved 40 BILLION dollars as a "Down Payment" to fight this war. A short time ago, our politicians said a 100 Million Dollar increase for the Navy budget was substantial. In that same bill they ordered the Navy to conduct an 85 Million Dollar Study on.....guess what America? Missile Defense? No. Desperately needed parts for out fighter aircraft? Wrong again. Training for Navy SEALs? Nope. They wanted Breast Cancer research. Yes, America, your elected officials decided that the U.S. Navy needed more mammograms and less missiles. Was this an under the table sneaky move? no, it was right out in the open. The Secretary of Defense and the Secretary of the Navy both opposed it. A New York Senatorial Candidate [Yes, she's the one] was enraged that the Military would be so sexist and irresponsible to the needs of civilians and wanted the Navy to give the money back immediately! But the media paid it little mind. So, America paid little attention. Did anyone ever watch CSPAN? Particularly when the Heads of our Armed Services essentially begged representatives to give the Military more money to fight terrorism and maintain a strong defense? Did you see the debates by the Heads of the Intelligence Services that terrorism was the new threat? They told the committees of Congress that the CIA, the FBI, and the Service did not have the money to build the necessary intelligence networks in the areas where terrorists were being harbored.

They warned again and again that there was clear and present danger within America's borders. America must have been watching one of the other 114 satellite channels. The Military said: "We need more money to maintain readiness and combat training." America answered: "What the Military needs is Sensitivity Training! You're all sexist homophobes! I saw it on 60-Minutes!" The Military said: "We need money to build ships, planes, tanks, and improve our technology. America still has credible threats throughout the world. Terrorism will come to America's doorstep." America answered: "You're all part of a vast right-wing conspiracy. There is no more Soviet threat! My Senator told me so! He/She says we do not need such a big military! You're dinosaurs trying to hold onto the Cold War! We need Social Programs! The Military said: "We need to recruit more Americans into the military. We need to increase our readiness. America answered: "You're not taking my kids! We're going to shut down the ROTC programs at our high schools and universities, because you discriminate against alternative lifestyles! ROTC teaches CHILDREN [under 12] how to shoot guns! You just want another Columbine! Rosie and Oprah say so!"

The Military said: "We can't keep interfering in the civil wars of small insignificant countries. It wastes our time, expends our resources, decreases training, and demoralizes our troops. The men and women of the United States are Warriors trying to defend OUR nation, we are not the third world's police force." America answered: "You heartless bastards! Can't you see the tear in the eye of that starving child!! There are flies on her face for Christ's Sake! Get Moving! Jesse Jackson on CNN said that is what we pay you for!" The Military asked: "Why isn't America engaged over the terrorist attack on the USS COLE that killed seventeen AMERICAN Sailors? How about the Air Force barracks bombed in Saudi Arabia? The embassy staffs in Africa? The Soldiers mutilated and dragged through the streets in Somalia?" America answered: "We don't have time right now! We're busy defending Animal Rights! The federal government is discriminating against cross-dressing Bolivian Hermaphrodites! The police are all members of the Ku Klux Klan! The lack of Ozone is ruining my tan! If they cut deeper into Food Stamps those poor women will have to move down to Size 18/20 Chanel dresses! Corporations are raising the prices of their products sooo high I might not be able to afford the multi-disc DVD Player for my 36" digital ready TV! Besides, YOU GUYS ARE PAID TO DIE!"

So, America, while you sit on your couch or around your office coffee pots and ask, "Why did those terrorists kill innocent civilians? Why didn't they go after the Military?" Remember this America: They already did, but America didn't care. These terrorists realized that they needed to kill American civilians, and lots of them, before they could have their desired reaction from the people of this country. Well, now they have it.