Posted on 09/27/2001 6:56:26 AM PDT by francisandbeans
The most sacred spot on earth to all members of the Islamic religion is the Holy City of Mecca, revered as the birthplace of Mohammed. It is one of the five basic requirements incumbent upon all Moslems that they make (if their health will allow it) a pilgrimage to Mecca once in their lives (the other four: recognize that there is no god but Allah, that Mohammed is Allah's prophet, ritually pray five times a day, and give alms to the poor).
The founding events of Islam are Mohammed's activities in Mecca and Medina, a city north of Mecca. The life of Mohammed, known as the Sira, is popularly accepted to be fully documented historically, that everything he did and said was accurately recorded. According to one hagiographer, although Mohammed "could not read or write himself, he was constantly served by a group of 45 scribes who wrote down his sayings, instructions and activities.... We thus know his life down to the minutest details."
The evidence for this is "the earliest and most famous biography of Mohammed," the Sirat Rasul Allah (The Life of the Prophet of God) of Ibn Ishaq. The dates given for Mohammed's life are 570-632 AD. Ibn Ishaq was born about 717 and died in 767. He thus wrote his biography well over 100 years after Mohammed lived, precluding his gaining any information from eyewitnesses to the Sira as they would have all died themselves in the intervening years.
However, no copies exist of Ibn Ishaq's work. We know of it only through quotations of it in the History of al-Tabari, who lived over two hundred years after Ibn Ishaq (al-Tabari died in 992). Thus the earliest biography of Mohammed of which copies still exist was written some 350 years after Mohammed lived.
It is curious, therefore, that there seems to have been so little serious scholarly research of the historical evidence for how Islam came to be. Yet what seems to be isn't so. A number of professional academic historians, both Western and Moslem, have produced a large body of research on the origins of Islam. For reasons best known to the pundits and reviewers who should be aware of it, this research remains publicly unknown.
Very interesting concept. Could be a great PsyOps plan.
I've only seen a second hand account loosely attributed to Josephus, the Roman/Jew who wrote more fiction than history.
The original historical accounts of Aristotle are numerous, and he wrote his own scrolls didn't he? Oh yes, and even founded a university that had students who wrote countless works with a mention or two of Aristotle and his life.
I do not believe that the Taliban's recent destruction of the towering statues of Buddha was a coincidence, nor do I believe that the recent suicide bombings of innocent women and children in Israel was a coincidence. They were symbols intended to send a message about the nature of the war Islam declared so long ago, and fully intends to complete.
Perhaps you can look at some Job ?
Anyways, I'd like you to place yourself in these mens shoes back then being spoken to by God and given visions through the Spirit . This being without the modern conviences of our expanded knowledge of the Earth and the Galaxy .
Fact of the matter is God is real and gave insight to wonderous things, which He still does, which is why I don't get bored with Him .
He created the heavens without any pillars that ye can see; He set on the earth mountains standing firm, lest it should shake with you; and He scattered through it beasts of all kinds. We send down rain from the sky, and produce on the earth every kind of noble creature, in pairs." Surah 31:10
"Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of murky water: Near it he found a People: We said: "O Zul-qarnain! (thou hast authority,) either to punish them, or to treat them with kindness." Surah 18:86
Islam teaches the Koran is direct utterance from Allah . Christians and Jews know that the Bible is written by men inspired by the Holy Spirit . Thus in another literal sense, to true believers in Islam, the world sits still and the sun sets in a spring of murky water .
Anyways, it's up to you wether you believe in Christs teachings, I know I believe Him and that He believes in all despite wether they believe in Him .
Cheese.
Now who squeeked?
Perhaps you can look at some Job ?
Anyways, I'd like you to place yourself in these mens shoes back then being spoken to by God and given visions through the Spirit . This being without the modern conviences of our expanded knowledge of the Earth and the Galaxy .
Fact of the matter is God is real and gave insight to wonderous things, which He still does, which is why I don't get bored with Him .
He created the heavens without any pillars that ye can see; He set on the earth mountains standing firm, lest it should shake with you; and He scattered through it beasts of all kinds. We send down rain from the sky, and produce on the earth every kind of noble creature, in pairs." Surah 31:10
"Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of murky water: Near it he found a People: We said: "O Zul-qarnain! (thou hast authority,) either to punish them, or to treat them with kindness." Surah 18:86
Islam teaches the Koran is direct utterance from Allah . Christians and Jews know that the Bible is written by men inspired by the Holy Spirit . Thus in another literal sense, to true believers in Islam, the world sits still and the sun sets in a spring of murky water .
Anyways, it's up to you wether you believe in Christs teachings, I know I believe Him and that He believes in all despite wether they believe in Him .
Cheese.
Now who squeeked?
Cheese.
Church authorities actually had been sympathetic to the Copernican view, as well as to Galileo personally; they did not take action until Galileo's academic rivals forced the issue.
True, he did spend the rest of his life under house arrest, but it was a comfortable house arrest; perhaps not a great change in his lifestyle, as even before the trial he had been ill and had had great difficulty travelling.
An injustice was done to Galileo, but it was not so harsh as some are led to believe (some school children believe he was burned at the stake); and its source was not so much the anger from the church, but plain old-fashioned academic backstabbing.
The original historical accounts of Aristotle are numerous, and he wrote his own scrolls didn't he?
I don't know, were you watching? "Attribution" has a different meaning in the ancient world when royalties and rights had no meaning. Works by students were often ascribed to a famous teacher in order to get them wider play.
Oh yes, and even founded a university that had students who wrote countless works with a mention or two of Aristotle and his life.
Was it your alma mater? How do you know Aristotle wasn't simply a literary device or a pseudonym for a group of philosophers? Skepticism cuts both ways.
Well, Catholics generally don't believe that Genesis is a historical document (although they are permitted to believe that), at least in the way that we define history today. The Genesis account is oral tradition that was eventually written down. The two accounts can be seen as different forms of literature. The only dogmatic teaching of the Catholic Church regarding Genesis that is binding on Catholics is that Adam and Eve were real people whose decision to disobey God resulted in their fall from grace and Original Sin.
The lack of corroborating historical records for the Hebrews in Egypt and their subsequent flight.
The traditional explanation is that the Exodus event was a big deal for the relatively small Jewish population, but a minor deal for the larger Egyptian population.
The lack of physical evidence for the conquest of Canaan.
Lack of archeaolgical evidence hardly seems like a conclusive refutation.
The questionable historicity of Jesus.
Well, here you've touched something substantive. But the alternative explanations for the New Testament accounts are untenable. 12 Apostles wouldn't give their lives for a lie or a prank. A great defense of the historicity of Jesus can be found in Peter Kreeft's Handbook of Christian Apologetics.
Time for some de-mythologizing. Did you know that several Cardinals funded Copernicus' studies?
Galileo was placed under house arrest for continuing to insist that the Catholic Church teach heliocentrism. Then, as now, the Church's responsibility is to teach regarding faith and morals, not natural science.
However, when natural science reaches beyond its science, such as when evolutionists teach materialistic philosophy, then the Church will teach against fallacious "scientific" (i.e. philosophic) claims. Today, the Church allows a variety of beliefs regarding human origins, but rules out strictly materialistic explanations.
The pilgrim enters the Holy Mosque at Mecca, right foot first, and recites the prayer: "In the name of Allah, may peace and blessings be upon the Messenger of Allah. Oh Allah, forgive me my sins and open to me the doors of Your mercy. I seek refuge in Allah the Almighty and in His Eminent Face and in His Eternal Dominion from the accursed Satan." The pilgrim performs the tawaf. This is a counter-clockwise procession which circles, "the Ka'aba, the [cube-shaped] stone building Muslims believe was originally built by Abraham and his son Ishmael... It is a symbol of unity for Muslims because all prayers, wherever they are performed, are oriented in the direction of the Ka'aba." 4,6
The pilgrim then performs the sa'i. He hurries seven times between two small hills near the Ka'aba, called Safa and Marwah. This commemorates the desperate search for water and food by Hagar, one of Abraham's wives.
I've often wondered about this. First, one must assume the 12 apostles were actual people. This runs into the same situation we find with the historicity of Jesus. Secondly, people give their lives all the time in support of lies -- take, for instance, the belief of Moslem "martyrs" that they'll be feted in paradise if they simply kill themselves and take as many infidels with them as possible. You and I would consider these beliefs to be lies, but the Moslem's take them very seriously. The same could be said for early Christians.
BTW, I'm Catholic too. I simply enjoy delving a little more deeply into religion than the average Christian feels comfortable doing. My comments and criticisms are more of an effort to elicit opinions and points of view that I may not have considered before.
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